You know, you are acting awfully entitled.

Try reading the first post before you act like that.

There is no straight answer other than use whatever gear gives the most AEP for your current particular set of stats. This changes as you gain or lose different stats and you'll have to figure it out for yourself using any of the available simulations. You could even write words on the wall and throw darts at them to get the appropriate stats for you, it is that dependent on your current variables.

Missing doesn't hurt your group's dps, the only thing that affects them is mana (to drop totems) and critical strikes(for UR).

Yeah, Malan summarized it pretty well. Both hit talents. That's it. All the hit that comes with your gear is a bonus. As you might notice from my profile that means quite some. I don't even aim for any hit, but all our sets have quite a lot of it... kinda.

Take the talents to hit cap your specials, any hit rating on gear after that is icing on the cake.

It clearly, quite clearly tells me exactly how much hit rating I "need" on my gear.

Since you are being bullheaded about this situation, I'll spell it out for you. An enchancement shaman "NEEDS ZERO +HIT" on their gear. That goes for every enhancement shaman who has the +hit talents maxxed out and is wearing reasonable gear.

If by some miracle you are wearing gear that nets you thousands of AP but absolutely zero crit chance and no +hit, you should run the simulators mentioned in the first post and see whether +hit has a higher AEP than other stats.

A thought I've had recently.. I find that even with just 63 hit rating there are times when I get somewhat unlucky and shamanistic rage doesn't actually fill my mana bar. This is mainly a problem on fights where I need to be saving my potion cooldowns for other things (super health pots, absorb pots, etc.). Am I correct in assuming that this isn't considered in the valuation for hit rating?

I guess the good times of a broken class trinket couldn't last, oh well. Hopefully they are unable to fix it patch after patch (lol vanish).

One fight is not enough to base your entire DPS cycle around

The question you pose is irrelevant. You prioritize the highest DPS method, and do the other one only when you have excess mana.

I've read the post about 15 times over the last month or two, and I mentioned that in my earlier post on top of thanking dude for his reply -- twice.

But if the High King of Enhancement Shaman OP is going to go on about having so much math behind his theorycraft, then it's reasonable to expect even a slight indication of how much hit a shaman should have. Otherwise don't pretend to be the authority on all things Enhancement, because most of us are just trying to optimize our toons amid a flood of information scattered across dozens of sites. (For instance, WoWWiki puts the *minimum* Hit Rating for pre-Kara at 125.)

You all know this is true -- go to the official forums and there will be 20 different answers.

How many times do we have to say this? You need 0 hit rating on your gear since yellow damage is capped with talents. At that point, crit and AP have a much better return then hit rating.
Do a search in this topic if you want the math behind it.

I kindly suggest you think twice about your next post, you'r walking a very thin line at the moment. The line of 'yet another official forums visitor who found a link to this topic there'.
And those people dont last long here.

Wow, there's no reason to be this obtuse.

What everyone here is trying to tell you is that arbitrarily declaring "minimum" hit rating is absolutely useless.

Trust in the AEP. Run your stats through a sim. Evaluate all your gear options using the AEP you get from the sim. Pick the best options. From those best options you've just picked, add up all the hit rating on them. That number you get? THAT is the minimum hit rating you should be aiming for. And wow lookie here, you just reached it. If your gear then deviates substantially due to upgrades, run the sim again.

The official forums suck. Wowwiki sucks. Get out of our thread if you're here to bicker and ask pointless questions. I think we need to try and cut down on links to the shaman forums when at all possible. Has anyone transfered over yet to test? Itching to see if the class trinket is balls now, or if it was somehow balanced even with the proc change.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/n.../newloots9.jpg

Your shock spells have a chance to grant 110 attack power for 10 seconds.

zzzzzzzzz

nothing

That's ... pretty lame. :/ Shocks are cast once every 6 seconds, MAX, for an enhancement shaman. Compare this to the 100 haste rating elemental shamans get when they lightning bolt (which they're doing once every 2.2 seconds or so). I guess we'll have to wait and see what the proc rate is, but still. -_-

@ Aegospotami

The reason people are getting frustrated with your question and persistence, is because it demonstrates an apparent lack of understanding as to what we all read/talk about here.

There is no single number to aim for because the 9% from our talents covers you well enough. If you get some on gear, great. If you don't, no need to cry.

The point is, you should be running some of the Simulators on the first page and inputting your current stats. Those sims (particularly Yo's sim) will give you an idea of what AEP values you need to be aiming for, and thus in terms of immediately upgrading your gear what items you should be seeking to acquire.

No one has an exact number because there isn't one. Its different for every shaman in every instance. The current values of your gear in terms of crit/hit/AP and so on will always mean that my requirements gear wise to increase my overall dps will almost, 99/100 times, be different to yours. They may result in us taking the same piece of gear, but at the end of the day my figures will likely differ from yours in terms of desired AEP values.

I hope this clarifys.

Here's a question for you all, and I hope like crazy that nobody in my guild ever finds out about my asking it.

I'm coming in the top 3-5 on our Gruul runs, and often. I'm beating mages and warlocks. I'm threat capped on most attempts, and I just don't shock on Gruul, too busy keeping totems up and timing my shamanistic rages, plus it gives me a bit of headroom on threat. I've gotten some upgrades recently, but nothing to crow about. In my gear, should this be happening? Shouldn't my fellow raiders be beating the ever loving piss out of me? Even with totem twisting, I'm out dpsing the rogues and warriors in my group.

Any input appreciated, regarding whether or not this should be occurring.

edit: nevermind found it on mmo-champion, wasn't showing on my wow forums page.

edit2: if it really only has a 50% chance to proc, its only a passive 137.5 ap which puts it down below the tsunami talisman I guess I don't care about exalted with the ashtongue anymore.

This will be easier to answer if you have WWS parses or other clean data regarding how much dps you're doing and how much dps they're doing.

It could be that you're a phenom, and are doing a lot more damage than most enhance shaman. It could be that your gear really is that much better than theirs. It could be that they are horrible players.

It's just very hard to say without knowing the specifics. The easiest initial question to answer - what's your overall dps for the encounter. You know that you're in the top 3-5, so that means someone's running damage meters, so the info should be readily available.

Getting some inconsistent results from Yo's simulator lately. I just ran five 10,000 hour simulations and these were the results:

Stat/AEP Value
Crit Rating - 2.35, 2.02, 1.86, 2.01, 2.31
Hit Rating - 1.92, 1.87, 1.68, 2.29, 1.92
Haste Rating - 2.33, 1.96, 2.03, 1.96, 1.95
Armor Penetration - 0.38, 0.39, 0.39, 0.38, 0.38
Agility - 2.28, 1.97, 1.81, 1.96, 2.24

Those values vary quite a bit. Am I doin' it wrong?

Ran the simulator again, this time without the "30% ap to spell damage" option turned on, and the results were much more consistent:

Stat/AEP Value
Crit Rating - 2.01, 2.05, 2.06, 1.99, 2.09
Hit Rating - 1.95, 1.91, 1.98, 1.96, 1.97
Haste Rating - 1.95, 1.96, 1.99, 1.96, 2.03
Armor Penetration - 0.39, 0.39, 0.40, 0.39, 0.39
Agility - 1.96, 2.0, 2.0, 1.94, 2.03

So is checking the "30% ap to spell damage option on causing problems? Is this a known issue with the simulator? Is this an issue at all or is it working correctly?

your gear is very similar to mine (nearly identical AP/crit, i have more hit and a dragonmaw) and i find myself in a very similar situation. Last week's gruul kill (our guild's 3rd, WWS here) i came in second at ~689 dps, losing only to our best BM hunter. I was right on the HS-tank's heels the whole fight. For me, this is simply a matter of the casual nature of my guild and the people in it. Just last week I got our shadow priest to try out stopcasting macros, and i'm pretty sure none of the mages or warlocks use them. I do better dps because most people in my guild aren't min/maxing at all.

Hell, in that WWS there's two other enhance shaman who come in below me (#6 & 10 in dps). Both of these shaman have been in the guild longer than me, have several pieces of arena gear, and have collected much more loot from Kara. One of them has the guild's only Dragonspine Trophy. But i still beat them because I've been reading this thread since it started and continually applying the knowledge here in game to make gear choices. I wear Midnight Legguards while one of them wears the t4 kilt for the 4-piece set bonus, and the other is waiting to replace his Midnight Legguards with Rip-Flayers. You are beating these people because they are not getting the most out of their class, be it poor gearing, poor play , or both.

WF/FT:

People keep saying this is "settled". However there are a few posts in here that state contrary information that I did not notice (I could have missed them) rebuttles to.

There might have been one or two others, but I missed them or can't find them easily anymore.

The bug which may or may not have been fixed? Is this specifically refering to the Yo! sim? Or another? Nemaa's results showed a not to major of a dps loss by using FT. I did not see anyone refute Nemaa's findings, but with the "bug" mention I did not know if this was even viable or accurate information. A 70dps loss isn't something to just ignore, but nor is it a doomsday cry of stupidity and bad judgement. Plus weapon/gear availability could make some changes in choices for people as well.

Question to Nemaa: Could you list the stats you plugged in for the Sim please? Such as how much crit, haste, hit, AP, etc was used? I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I personally used FT for a while a long time ago and it made me sad just because I hated not seeing the WF numbers going by. But if there are scenarios where FT performs in the same playing field as WF (and I'd *personally* consider within 100dps the same playing field when you're over 1k dps) I'd like to be aware of it.