14 AP is 1 white DPS when you're attacking with only one weapon and before any talents, special attacks, or crits. In other words, 14 AP provides significantly more than 1 DPS to level 70 enhancement shamans, who are dual-wielding, using Stormstrike, proccing Windfury (which is further multiplied by 40% talented correctly), critting ~30% of the time, and have a Weapon Mastery talent that increases all melee damage we deal by 10%.

Nevertheless, even supposing that those things increase our AP->DPS conversion by a factor of 4, you're still getting 12 agility and 35 AP which is more than any other meta can offer.

sry for being this blunt Razputin but ill say as snorkle did on the forum about this and I Quote:

"NO NO NO NO NO" :P

anyways fast weapon eating flurry is the flurry mechanic misunderstood really... a faster weapon will also apply a new flurry so fast of slow weapons your flurry uptime (if you dont count up until first crit of a session) will be the same.. Yes the flurry gets eaten faster you are right, but you are also hitting faster so as said you will also get flurry proc more often

flurry is depending on you critting, not your weaponspeeds.. if flurry was attackspeed for 3 seconds things would be different, but its 3 swings, so speed won't matter... tell me if I don't make sense, however, this should be understandable.

Nubittos

Thanks a lot, RED could be valued roughly as 60 AEP, or maybe to be safe 50-55 AEP. Mainly concerned as comparing ZA leather and mail head pieces against T4 with RED as those don't have meta gem slots. Seems that both ZA options are upgrade to T4 with RED.

T4 2p set bonus is decent for full melee groups compared to upgrade I would get replacing all my T4 pieces with ZA+heroic pieces...

Flurry is actually dependent on weapon speeds, even if it's just a small amount. This seems to get overlooked by 95% of players (stat made up on the spot).

From my post in the Blizzard forums:

===================================
Think of the following example:

You are dual wielding a 5.0 speed weapons (I know, that's ridiculous, but it helps illustrate the point)

How many times in 10 seconds can you proc a flurry state?
2 - stormstrike
2 - windfury (say we only get one windfury in this 10 second scenario)
4 - white hits.

So, we have 8 attacks that can proc flurry.

How many can use up flurry charges? 4.

So, we have 2 flurry-proc'ing attacks for every flurry consuming attack. You will be close to perma flurried in this case.

Now, assume you are using 1.0 speed weapons. Say we get two windfuries instead of one (just to make it clear that even with more flurry-generating attacks your flurry % can go down).

How many times in 10 seconds can you proc a flurry state?
2 - stormstrike
4 - windfury
20 - white hits.

So, we have 26 attacks that can proc flurry.

How many can use up flurry charges? 20.

So, we have 1.3 flurry-proc'ing attacks for every flurry consuming attack. This is a much worse production to consumption ratio than with the slower weapons.

Simply put, with faster weapons, your flurry uptime will decrease because the bonus flurry-attacks of SS and WF are a smaller percentage of the number of flurry-proc-capable moves.
=================================

Hope that helps.

OP updated with Rob's analysis of Weapon Expertise and Panny's analysis of the Stonebreaker's Totem.

you can probably update it adding as OH weapon fool's bane and the decapitator, since they finally decided to make them one-hand next patch

EDIT: nm i should learn to read i didn't saw the little addendum, ignore me!

I can verify the results on the stonebreaker totem. My test was slightly different since I had 6 second shocks. However I can say for certain that never once did the buff get reapplied. So there is definitely a cooldown in the range of 10-12 seconds.

After 20 minutes in blasted lands my uptime was in the low 50's %wise which is pretty nice.

Other observations.
Our mana burden has dropped dramatically. Spamming SS and shocks with water shield and mana totem running pretty much meant my mana never dropped. Cheap shocks, improved mana spring and water shield (amazing water shield) was more than enough. I did not even use Shamanistic rage. If you are not getting hit water shield is really nice but not amazing. If you are grinding mobs though it is truly amazing.

Also for newer shaman or ones that forget the old resto days it is important to realize that your totem strength gets determined when it drops. Our AP fluctuates wildly at times but if possible you want to wait, at the very least, until you have strength totem, battle shout and unleashed rage up prior to dropping searing and healing stream. It makes a very big difference.

Searing recalculates on every cast afaik, but your advice is true for healing stream.

Theories aside. Copy pasting what I have just posted in euro forums:

I am surprised to say the least. My quick test have shown fast oh with FT to be better

Is there already a very good quality lightweight watershield mod? If not, I"ll build one into DisqoDice.

You were fighting with the mob facing you, which means parries. The mob is significantly lower than you which means you were not having FT resisting at the proper rate.

I would actually say that your results are to be expected actually, not surprising at all. Because of Dodge and Parry you're taking an overall physical DPS loss over your test, whereas FT will have almost no resists whatsoever.

We really need to stop using Blasted Lands mobs for testing, the Halaa ones would be a better estimate, although I realize the inherent difficulties in using them.

Another worthwhile note is that while your OH damage will scale with WF, but your FT will not change at all. In other words with WF both weapon dps and WF dps will improve as weapon dps improves, but with FT only weapon dps will improve.

I found that on trash in ZA on PTR I was frequently topping 1100 DPS with Flametongue in offhand with a Ced's Carver and Windfury on mainhand with a Syphon. Amazed, I tried it out at the next boss fight, and got less than stellar results, barely topping 800 DPS. For comparison I was doing 850-900 DPS in the same situation with my normal WF setup. Group buffs were my totems + anything a prot paladin gives (nothing?) + a prot warrior who was most likely using commanding shout. I will try to get more testing in ZA with Flametongue this coming weekend when we run it some more. I wish I had a higher DPS offhand weapon to use, but the Ced's Carver just randomly dropped in ZA while we were running it and I long ago disenchanted my Malchazeen and Emerald Ripper.

Flametongue performs significantly better against +1 and +2 targets than +3. The resist rate skyrockets from 6% against a +2 to 17% against a +3, which is the main reason that Flametongue is so horrible in the context of raiding. People see comparable numbers from WF to FT on trash or while grinding and assume that these results will carry over to boss fights, and this is absolutely not the case.

Perhaps that's something to explore then - would it better to have a kit of weapons, fast OH for trash and slow OH for bosses?

Yah that bugs me too. It falls in the Enhancement talent tree, it should probably be based around stats that we use.

Removed this comment, as it was based on a misread of a Wowhead post.

Only Seal of Command (and Blood I guess, but it blows so who cares) works this way; Seal of Righteousness is a normal spell hit check. Avenger's Shield also uses melee mechanics, but Paladins get hosed over just as badly as Shamans do in this respect.

I believe they are refering to Elixir of Mongoose and not Mongoose enchant.

I don't think there is, and even if there was, it's better to have all-in-one, i love your mod, makes me a happy twister!

Bah, so they were.

Its amazing how you can read a set of comments on Wowhead or wherever two or three times, and it just doesn't click until its pointed out.

Guess it can be attributed to hardly ever using the actual Elixir of Mongoose these days.