If you wanted to do something like that, it would probably have to be a castsequence macro.

/startattack
/castsequence Stormstrike, Totem Thingy

Press that twice whenever stormstrike is up and your totem will get equipped while the GCD from Stormstrike is still cooling down.

Some quick, sloppy napkinmath on the ele vs resto thing:

With UR and stormstrike up I was earthshocking for ~1100 on PTR. With a 5% crit rate (2.5% more damage) and 16% miss rate, my earthshocks are going to average 930 damage.

Shocking every 6 seconds is 155 DPS. Shocking every 6.3 seconds is 147 DPS (one in five shocks delayed one GCD because your shock came off cooldown at the same time as stormstrike). Shocking every 5 seconds is 186 DPS. So Reverb is worth 39 DPS.


For comparison, Nature's Guidance is 3% more white damage and 3% more shock damage. (Really, the 3% more white damage thing is a gross oversimplification - the extra attacks can't crit, but they may be able to proc windfury. It's close enough to 3% white damage that I'm going to just go with that.) But anyway, 3% more white damage, 3% more shock damage. Last I checked something like 60% of my melee damage was white damage, and I average about 1000 melee DPS (shocks excluded, obviously). So the 3% hit is worth ~18 DPS. The 3% spell hit is going to be about 5 DPS.

So just comparing reverb vs nature's guidance, reverb comes out 16 DPS ahead. Factoring in Concussion and Call of Flame, I'd expect a ~25 DPS increase from going elemental over resto.

Whether 25 DPS + elemental warding is more valuable than cheaper totems + faster HW + imp reincarnate isn't a numbers question and can only be answered by the individual player.

For me the kicker is improved totem range. In my opinion, totem range should be 30' standard and expandable with talent.

Out of curiosity, did the elemental testing include the +3% spell hit from that talent? Since we have no spell hit, I'm curious how much difference that makes in shock resists. I secretly want the Ele/Enh build to work as well, primarily for Reverb and elemental warding. I just cringe at giving up the totem range and natures guidance.

I can confirm from checking out the vendor myself that lot of weapons have no rating requirement on item link OR on mouseover. A lot of them on the other hand, do.

Definitely looked at the wrong forum, but frequent the suggestion forums!

Curiosity: Stonebreaker totem says "Shock spells have..." does that mean the spell needs to be cast, or the spell needs to hit? I am guessing that it needs to hit, but the text doesn't indicate that.

DamageMeters: <DPS> report on 14/3 sources:
#01: Crueltii 1092.8
#02: Searing Totem VII 65.0
#03: Fire Nova Totem VII 0.6
Combat duration = 1791.82 seconds.
Total = 1158.4 (1158.4 visible)

Ok so thats the stats on the immortal mob in Blastedlands for the ele/enh spec for a full WF duration (30mins).

The mob level is 54 non elite btw.

Need to balance my macros cast sequence for this spec so Im shocking in the right spots.. I was finding there was times I was waiting on the SS cooldown to finish while the shocks were up. That could push some more damage.

recount was showing my crit rate for melee vs a lvl 54 as 33.5% vs 29.99% actual. To give you a idea of the extra kinda damage hitting a 54 would be. So Id say maybe drop 100 dps from the 1158.4 possibly more.

DamageMeters: <DPS> report on 14/2 sources:
#01: Crueltii 1063.9
#02: Searing Totem VII 58.0
Combat duration = 1807.55 seconds.
Total = 1121.9 (1121.9 visible)

Was the damage from the enh resto spec on the same mobs.

Now as you can see its not a big damage difference but I think it something thats scales more with AP (spelldamage) than with just the hit incease. So the shocks and searing totem will start to do more damage when raidbuffed (yeah durr I know). Its had to see the actual damage difference of having that extra hit because of the mobs level.

If I can work out the best timing for my cast sequence for the ele/enh spec so i dont waste proc chances Im thinking that the damage will be higher again.

Blasted lands mobs skew results. There's no real reason to use them anymore.

The loss of the +hit from the Restoration spec will hurt you much more versus a mob of equal level or a boss level mob then it will against a level 54 mob in the blasted lands. You cannot effectively test the difference in the two spec's without taking each one into an instance and testing it. I would recommend something like Morogrim since you can stand stationary behind him for most of the fight. Unless you find the gear to replace the hit lost by those talents your miss rate will increase dramatically. And replacing that hit with gear is going to decrease your DPS because you cannot focus on other stats that would increase it.

If you were to have gear at Stigmata's level, where you get a great deal of Hit Rating from the gear without any serious loss in DPS, I could see the switch for the additional damage, but even then your losing out on +Spell Hit and the increased totem range. That +Spell Hit will effect your shock DPS as well, even after 2.3.

Yep thats currently what im thinking now after nutting it out some more. What I really need is some good raiding results to back up which spec will be the best.
To give you all a idea in difference of dps vs the blastedlands (epeen stroking mobs) I got invited to a ZA lastnight. Using the standard enh/resto spec (a few differences for the Mental quickness) I was at the 700-750 (fire totems included) dps mark on the trash and bosses.
It would proberly be higher if It was just data from the bossfights but I wanted to see the difference in my missrate with the nerf to the orc weapon racial.
Few things I would like to mention is that with the upped threat reduction for melee to 30% and salv (dont leave home without it) threat was not a issue for me at all. If I did accidently pull agro because I started on a mob early I just used Shamanistic Rage for the damage reduction as well.
With the Focused casting (60% cheaper shocks) and the new water sheild mana was never a issue, I rarely had to use SR for mana back.
Only gripe is that the spelldamage is not correctly reflected in the toon sheet but I have fed that back to blizz.

Here's my PowerAura lua file: RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting I assume this is where configs are stored.

The Arena Maces look like giant bouquets anyway.

Toss it in the sim, and find out.

Assume a highly geared shaman, 20% hit from gear incl. enh tree +hit, 40% crit, 28% base miss for dw, 6% dodge, 6.25% glancing factored in

the closed attacktable looks like (100-28-6-6.25+20+40) = 119.75
now increasing hit +3, it is 122.75, the dps increase in % is now 2.5% for white dmg, so something in the range of 1.25-1.5% total dmg
as for shocks, basic resist is 17%, so getting 3% spellhit, increases our factor to 0.86, so the dmg increase for shocks is 0.86/0.83 = 3.6%. Assuming 10% total dps from shocks, this is not even 0.5% of total dmg.
Nature's Guidance is worth some 1.5-2.0% in dps for a fully geared enh shaman

Lujaar's math is fine, except that spellmiss is actually 17% against lvl 73, does not change the result that much though.
Technically you can not beat Reverbaration in DPS increase and as he said, it's up to you if it is worth for you.

That's a question i've been asking myself a lot.

Being a Macesmith myself, i wonder when i see Blacksmith enhancement shamans using rising tide, or Syphons. Do you guys value those over Dragonstrike?

I can imagine the axesmith replacing wicked edge by Rising Tide, since it's simply better, but what about macesmithes what would you use?

An equally interesting reading.

I've never tested this myself yet, but i had the feeling having both hands at the same speed was actually a good thing for flurry reasons. Now i read the contrary i'm a bit confused, are there some parses confirming your feelings?

this is using the general AEP from the first post, as it's more or less general thinking

The chance to critical strike increases by 1% per 22.1 critical strike rating points at level 70, thus using 1 crit rating as 2 AEP, 1% Crit is ~44AEP. (which actually seems pretty high?)

It's 1% per 15.8 hit rating points at level 70. general AEP for hit rating is 1.17. The old bonus is ~3% hit and 0.2% crit (plus whatever else), which is equal to ~64.26EP(plus whatever else). Pretty steep nerf which might actually value hit rating a bit more for Orcs now.


According to the first post, [Wicked Edge of the Planes] is worth 94 AEP for non-Orcs, [Merciless Gladiator's Cleaver] is worth 84 AEP, while [Dragonstrike] is worth 98AEP.

Comparing the two BS weapons, the axe would still totally destroy the mace it seems. Actually practically any axe would destroy anything other except for outgeared stuff (when coming from AEP alone, not factoring DPS)?


Something totally different: has anyone checked on PTR if the BS weapons still are MH only? I've copied my char over, but didn't think to check it out.

Alright so are you saying that the wicked edge of the planes is actually better than the dragonstrike still? I know, i'm a tad slow as it's 7:01am here where i'm at and i've been sick the past two days without sleep.

That said, i'm trying to find out more about what AEP is exactly thru the archives so forgive me my noobiness.

edit: I looked for you and no, they didn't make the BS weapons one handed. :/

For flurry reasons, in a perfect situation, same speed is always going to be better if you can get your weapons attacking at the same time because the game has to fudge the numbers a bit to compensate for lag. However, using two same speed weapons can seriously nerf your windfury damage if you're always attacking with your offhanding first, which you will be doing if you begin attacking outside of melee range of the mob. That's most likely why, in practice, slow/slower works out better for damage than same speed weapons.

This is a fallacy -- the same thing has an equal chance of happening with MH procs. Using the same speed weapons is simply more subject to streakiness due to this factor; different speeds will eventually force the cycle to be broken and can result in more consistent damage. In truth it matters little because Stormstrike always considers the MH to hit first and thus get first chance to proc. You'll rarely see the same hand proc more than a few times in a row, and it ends up being more of a coin toss chance as to which hand will go off next with the odds slightly skewed in the main hand's favor.

Mind you the adjusted values of AEP for Orcs will no longer mean anything since their racial will work different, just take the weapons natural AEP and add 1% crit level of AEP to it. Basically your just adding in 35.2-44 AEP on average (i believe since it is just 1.6/2 times 22 for the crit rating).

The more consistent damage from using different speed weapons is probably what inclines people to use, say, Rising Tide in the mainhand instead of a second Syphon. You have to also take into account those who stormstrike every time the cooldown is up regardless of whether windfury is cooled down. They do this to get the stormstrike debuff back up more quickly as well as totem twist more easily (using a SS/WF/GOA macro), and as such there is no guarantee that any given stormstrike will even be able to proc a windfury.

My main intent in discussing this is to figure out why people are, in practice, seeing larger DPS gains using 2.6/2.8 vs. 2.8/2.8 so what we can decide whether S3/S3 is going to be better or worse than S3/Syphon when Arena Season 3 comes out.

It probably has something to do with how a 2.6 drops to exactly 2.0 speed when flurried, which is one of the sweet spots for WF proc rate.

Expertise Rating -- looks like it's going to be a great way to spend your itemization. 15.6 Expertise Rating for 1% reduction in dodge and a further 1% reduction in parry (for those fights where you can't control the mobs' facing).

Seems to me it may even be more valuable than Haste Rating or Strength.