I still disagree with this. From all my tests iv done, there more dps from Syphon in the MH assuming SS only when WF can proc. I thought all the tests id seen on here also said this.
On the PTR currently, (I am logged in right now) my spelldmg/healing (from the new Mental Quickness) are not updating correctly on the character sheet. It's been like this for weeks now. Sometimes, logging off and back on changes the numbers but they are never accurate if totems/trinkets/buffs are applied/used.
Anyone else seeing this?
A few people noticed. After testing it seems it's just a character sheet display error.
A question I have right now though is if I should keep my dragonstrike or go with RT/Syphon. I know the haste proc is huge in figuring out dps numbers but am I at the point where the stats gained from rt will outweigh the proc buff?
A question I have right now though is if I should keep my dragonstrike or go with RT/Syphon. I know the haste proc is huge in figuring out dps numbers but am I at the point where the stats gained from rt will outweigh the proc buff?
I have all of the "best" weapon combos and in game testing as well as sims have always had Dragonstrike above any other MH weapon for me. I don't understand your "at the point" statement because it's not like haste has a constant value, it gets more valuable as your other stats increase as well.
And a big WTF to ret paladins, clearly we are not bitching enough. S3 gear has been out for what, 2 weeks? Glad that stuff is getting changed for them.
Last edited by rava : 10/26/07 at 2:36 AM.
Reason: wtf
And a big WTF to ret paladins, clearly we are not bitching enough. S3 gear has been out for what, 2 weeks? Glad that stuff is getting changed for them.
I'm actually a little concerned about this. We need to get more shaman to speak up about gear, or else we'll be stuck with crap forever (t5 shoulders, mp5 on t6, t6 2p). Offset gear shouldn't be better than our tier gear, but it seems like this is the case with every new set that comes out. Let our voices be heard!!
The t6 2p really really needs to be changed in 2.3. Since they changed the old t1 bonus when our 30yd totem range talent came out, I don't think this would be too much of a stretch.
Last edited by drats : 10/26/07 at 3:42 AM.
Reason: I need to read the dictionary more.
I'm wondering if Flame shock is better than Earth shock without Coe and Scorch.
In the calculation I can't figure out what the 18/36 are from. Misery for earch shock, that's 5, where do the other 13 come from? Same thing for Flame shock, 13+5+15=33? Where do the extra 3 come from. Also, is Stormstrike included in that calculation?
On a different topic, I read the note about Searing totem in the original post, but it only mention the 2.3 version. Is it worth using currently?
Basically I'm wondering if Flame shock is still better than Earth shock without Coe and Scorch.
In the calculation I can't figure out what the 18/36 are from, misery for earch shock, that's 5, where do the other 13 come from? And same thing for Flame shock, 13+5+15=33? Where do the extra 3 come from. Also, is Stormstrike included in that calculation?
On a different topic, I read the note about Searing totem in the original post, but it only talks about the 2.3 version. Is it worth using currently?
13% is Malediction-ed CoE
5% is Misery
15% is Scorch
20% Stormstrike is included in ES
Searing Totem is worth using right now because we don't have a lot of places to spend mana anyway, if you don't twist totems.
I have all of the "best" weapon combos and in game testing as well as sims have always had Dragonstrike above any other MH weapon for me. I don't understand your "at the point" statement because it's not like haste has a constant value, it gets more valuable as your other stats increase as well.
I wouldn't put too much faith in Yo's modelling of Dragonstrike, it's pretty optimistic on proc uptime.
I'm wondering if Flame shock is better than Earth shock without Coe and Scorch.
You don't even have to think about it in terms of other buffs on the mob. If there is -anyone- else using your Stormstrike nature charges, you're better off waiting to earth shock till storm strike is off the mob, so you may as well cast flame shock instead.
If you use disqodice and would like some input on the display of the watershield component, I'm looking for help and would appreciate it if people would stop by here:
Hello fellow shamans,
i would like to add my two words of wisdom.
Be careful with your new gear addition. Don't vendor your old one, unless it is an exact upgrade of stats. But if your new gear has different stats, like not agi and critical strike but agi and hit rating or haste rating, better keep them both as you cant tell when you will go lower in hit rating or critical or any, with the constant upgrade in your gear.
And no calculator or AEP can figure that out for you. Stats are good to weight but you should look your overall stats when deciding your current gear. Keep all different epics in your bank, it wont hurt. Going below 125-140 in hit rating is bad, going below 28% (without feral druid in raid) or 25% (with feral druid in raid) is also bad. These numbers are empirical and are my base crit stats, accompanied with 2 mongooses. So keep your blue crit trinkets and your old hit rating epic gear in bank,. You will have situations you will really need to stir that big soup of epics to make a nice viable combo of gear.
I would also like to agree with some posts, 14 talent points in resto are essential for maximizing your dps. But to maximize dps in long raid battles, means that you need also cheaper mana costs for totems and for shocks. Thats why i really use 5 points in totems (or 3 and rest 2 in improved reincarnation ) and remaining talent points in elemental tree for even cheaper shocks. Also Totemic Mastery is a must as its your only weapon against fear outranging your tremor tick rate.
We never go out of mana even if we nuke for 10minutes. The Shamanistic focus is overpowered as between 6seconds of shock cooldown you will crit at least 2-3 times. That means you have constant 60% cheaper shocks to use.The part of the talent of mental quickness that refers to 6% cheaper shocks is obsolete and should be removed.
In my opinion, i won;t post it at blizzard forums :P, there should be a stackable buff from your melee criticals, that reduces the mana cost of shocks from a low discount to a high discount. That would be nice and reasonable.
PS. For the Darkmoon card : Crusade i would like to add that it creates two stackable buffs on the Enhancement shaman. One is your AP and one is for your Spelldmg. Even with 6second Shocks i have had situations where i stacked up all the spelldmg bonus from this trinket (80spelldmg), u merely need 60seconds , or 10 shocks without 2 being resisted continuously. Thats why i would like you to reconsider the AEP of this trinket and add something more to it.
Hello fellow shamans,
i would like to add my two words of wisdom.
Be careful with your new gear addition. Don't vendor your old one, unless it is an exact upgrade of stats. But if your new gear has different stats, like not agi and critical strike but agi and hit rating or haste rating, better keep them both as you cant tell when you will go lower in hit rating or critical or any, with the constant upgrade in your gear.
And no calculator or AEP can figure that out for you. Stats are good to weight but you should look your overall stats when deciding your current gear. Keep all different epics in your bank, it wont hurt. Going below 125-140 in hit rating is bad, going below 28% (without feral druid in raid) or 25% (with feral druid in raid) is also bad. These numbers are empirical and are my base crit stats, accompanied with 2 mongooses. So keep your blue crit trinkets and your old hit rating epic gear in bank,. You will have situations you will really need to stir that big soup of epics to make a nice viable combo of gear.
I would also like to agree with some posts, 14 talent points in resto are essential for maximizing your dps. But to maximize dps in long raid battles, means that you need also cheaper mana costs for totems and for shocks. Thats why i really use 5 points in totems (or 3 and rest 2 in improved reincarnation ) and remaining talent points in elemental tree for even cheaper shocks. Also Totemic Mastery is a must as its your only weapon against fear outranging your tremor tick rate.
We never go out of mana even if we nuke for 10minutes. The Shamanistic focus is overpowered as between 6seconds of shock cooldown you will crit at least 2-3 times. That means you have constant 60% cheaper shocks to use.The part of the talent of mental quickness that refers to 6% cheaper shocks is obsolete and should be removed.
In my opinion, i won;t post it at blizzard forums :P, there should be a stackable buff from your melee criticals, that reduces the mana cost of shocks from a low discount to a high discount. That would be nice and reasonable.
PS. For the Darkmoon card : Crusade i would like to add that it creates two stackable buffs on the Enhancement shaman. One is your AP and one is for your Spelldmg. Even with 6second Shocks i have had situations where i stacked up all the spelldmg bonus from this trinket (80spelldmg), u merely need 60seconds , or 10 shocks without 2 being resisted continuously. Thats why i would like you to reconsider the AEP of this trinket and add something more to it.
Hello fellow shamans,
i would like to add my two words of wisdom.
Be careful with your new gear addition. Don't vendor your old one, unless it is an exact upgrade of stats. But if your new gear has different stats, like not agi and critical strike but agi and hit rating or haste rating, better keep them both as you cant tell when you will go lower in hit rating or critical or any, with the constant upgrade in your gear.
And no calculator or AEP can figure that out for you. Stats are good to weight but you should look your overall stats when deciding your current gear. Keep all different epics in your bank, it wont hurt. Going below 125-140 in hit rating is bad, going below 28% (without feral druid in raid) or 25% (with feral druid in raid) is also bad. These numbers are empirical and are my base crit stats, accompanied with 2 mongooses. So keep your blue crit trinkets and your old hit rating epic gear in bank,. You will have situations you will really need to stir that big soup of epics to make a nice viable combo of gear.
I would also like to agree with some posts, 14 talent points in resto are essential for maximizing your dps. But to maximize dps in long raid battles, means that you need also cheaper mana costs for totems and for shocks. Thats why i really use 5 points in totems (or 3 and rest 2 in improved reincarnation ) and remaining talent points in elemental tree for even cheaper shocks. Also Totemic Mastery is a must as its your only weapon against fear outranging your tremor tick rate.
We never go out of mana even if we nuke for 10minutes. The Shamanistic focus is overpowered as between 6seconds of shock cooldown you will crit at least 2-3 times. That means you have constant 60% cheaper shocks to use.The part of the talent of mental quickness that refers to 6% cheaper shocks is obsolete and should be removed.
In my opinion, i won;t post it at blizzard forums :P, there should be a stackable buff from your melee criticals, that reduces the mana cost of shocks from a low discount to a high discount. That would be nice and reasonable.
PS. For the Darkmoon card : Crusade i would like to add that it creates two stackable buffs on the Enhancement shaman. One is your AP and one is for your Spelldmg. Even with 6second Shocks i have had situations where i stacked up all the spelldmg bonus from this trinket (80spelldmg), u merely need 60seconds , or 10 shocks without 2 being resisted continuously. Thats why i would like you to reconsider the AEP of this trinket and add something more to it.
Exactly what you said here before hasn't been mentioned about 2 million times in the thread?
If you're summarizing things, please say so. You're acting as if you're talking about something none of us has ever thought about or experienced.
Please have a look at the wow test realm forums, I have posted a bug to do with grounding totem that kinda needs to be fixed.
So far it only seems to effect Judgement of command from my testing, however since I have only tested using a ret paladin... This doesn't mean much.
The bug means that even if grounding totem is down, you will still take damage from JoC and the totem will be destroyed. I can see it having the same effect on other abilitys however.
It would be good if other people could do some more testing, and maybe report it to try and get it fixed.
I'm at the point now where I can start using Epic gems in any new gear I get (MH/BT gear) I'm just wondering, how would I go about deciding on which ones to use? How do /you/ decide? do you just run the gems through the java sim and see which gives that tiny bit more DPS, or are there certain AP/CRIT values you are aiming for? Like 1600 AP 30% crit etc
It's very simple, use Yo's sim to get the values for the stats, you can apply them to the gems of course.
For socket bonus you can calculate if 2 x 10 STR is better or red + yellow + socket bonus, for example.
You'll need 2 blue gems for the RED metagem so you need to find the two armor pieces that gives you the most AEP with socket bonus. For example you have [Midnight Chestguard], [Bow-stitched Leggings] and [Belt of One-Hundred Deaths]. Having the socket bonus of the chest and the legs and putting 2 x 10 STR in the belt is generally better than putting 3 x 10 STR in the chest and having the socket bonus of the leggings and the belt (but it depends on your values).
Thanks that helps. And with that, I have some questions about the Java sim.. need to know if i'm using it correctly.
I want to assume Kings, because I have kings on every raid.. now on the buffs page, it has an option for kings, but in the text below the simulator it mentions something about you putting in your stats with kings in, so just to be sure will selecting the Kings buff do that for me when running the tests or do I have to work out my stats with kings then check the kings buff?
Another thing is the haste, what's the "5" haste that is there? should I change that to 0? I don't really know what it is.
Haste potion on the buffs page.. is that assuming you are popping a haste potion on every cooldown? don't really understand how it works.
I'm also a bit unsure about what this whole "works out your /own/ aep values based on /your/ gear, because what if my gear is wrong/incorrect in the first place? I really can't see how this works? maybe someone can explain it to me in lamens terms.
You want to input your stats(attack power, crit rating) with kings. I believe checking the kings option is just so it takes the buff into account when assigning an AEP value for strength and agility. For example strength has an AEP value of 2.0, unless you have kings, then each point of strength would have an AEP value of 2.2.
That haste number is the percentage of haste you have from gear.
AEP values are just numbers that tell us how valuable each stat is to us based on the gear we're currently using. The stats in WoW scale with eachother. For example as your crit percentage gets higher, the value of additional crit rating starts to decrease, and the value of additional attack power starts to increase. The stats work with eachother, which is why it's never really wise to focus on stacking one particular stat. You want some of everything. The simulator is going to give you AEP values based off of your particular stats.
Right, that was a discussion we had with Yo quite some time back. Since you are only entering your AP, you need to let the sim know that you are getting part of that AP with Kings on. The best way to use the sim is to get buffed with MotW and Kings (since MotW affects your Strength/Agility and Kings will further increase that value) and then add in all the static buffs on the sim that have nothing to do with Kings.
If your gear is "wrong" then the sim and the AEP values it gives you will reflect that. Lets say that you stacked +Hit at the expense of all other stats, maybe you have like 300 +Hit but only 500 AP and 20% Crit. Your AEP values would place Strength and Crit/Agility very very high, but would weigh Hit rating extremely low. That would skew your gear selection toward items that spent no points on Hit Rating, but had high values of crit/str/AP.
Right, that was a discussion we had with Yo quite some time back. Since you are only entering your AP, you need to let the sim know that you are getting part of that AP with Kings on. The best way to use the sim is to get buffed with MotW and Kings (since MotW affects your Strength/Agility and Kings will further increase that value) and then add in all the static buffs on the sim that have nothing to do with Kings.
If your gear is "wrong" then the sim and the AEP values it gives you will reflect that. Lets say that you stacked +Hit at the expense of all other stats, maybe you have like 300 +Hit but only 500 AP and 20% Crit. Your AEP values would place Strength and Crit/Agility very very high, but would weigh Hit rating extremely low. That would skew your gear selection toward items that spent no points on Hit Rating, but had high values of crit/str/AP.
That explains it, thanks I really couldn't work out how it worked, so it's really the best idea to get your own weights from the sim and use them in Enhancer rather than using the default ones in the first post?
Meh... I dunno about 'best'. The default values work well enough as a baseline I think. For the most part nobody has really shown us an AEP value that gave radically different priorities of gear than anyone else - unless that guy had been exclusively stacking one stat. A few items shift around in priority, thats all I really see when I've plugged in different sets.
heya, I an new to theory crafting and in the last 4 days or so I have read all 172 pages of posts or so of this thread, I have found the information and discussion here to all be very helpful. Thank you very much for this thread.
My guild is currently just starting ssc and has downed lurker and VR, and I have pretty much entry level SSC/TK gear with the exception of the pendant.
I did my first simulation using Yo's sim and this is what I came up with
Shot at 2007-10-27
I was using major agility pots,BoM, BoK, MoTW, LoTP, TSA, GoA, SoE and roasted clefthoof for this (what I normally have up) And I believe I input the right numbers.
I did 2 more sims after and here is what I got (assuming strength=2.2 and ap=1)
AEP values of 3 sims
#1
crit rating = 1.6
hit rating=1.59
haste rating=1.75
Armor penetration=0.28
agility= 1.55
there all slightly different.....does it matter which of these value sets I use??? or should I use the second one since it is in between 1 and 3?
those AEP values seem right to me and I am thinking I am just about avg for SSC entry gear
do you think slightly lowering these stats or tweaking them a little and putting them through Yo's would provide a good AEP base value for entering SSC/TK??
this was done with BoK included...its 1690 because I factored in bloodlust brooch by doing (278*20/120) which came out to roughly 46 So i added it to 1644 (since theres no choice for bloodlust brooch)
10/25/07, 7:13 PM
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