Hello fellow shamans im posting for the first time here in the EJ forums.

I must express a complain:Now that we FINALLY have the 30% damage reduction due to new SR, why on earth do we have this noob talent called aniticipaton?or toughness (10% armor frm items YAY!)-.- ... Cant blizzard replace it with epxertise or something like that?Idont miss so often but those mobs keep DODGING all the time...Maybe blizz sould consider this?

Razzan

P.S. Im sure i clicked ''Aszune''.... :P

Welcome to a year ago? We've been complaining about those 2 talents ever since the 2.0 talent tree came out.

Hello Malan, erhm yeah i know but thought i d bring this up again for reasons like being fed up with DODGED STORMSTRIKES AND DODGED WINDURY ATTACKS.And since the OP (really good and helpful post btw)states that expertise would also affect yellow attacks,shouldnt it be a cookie cutter ability for shamans?

Razzan

Is the Decapitator better than Fool’s Bane in the OH if you take into account OH penalty and Fool’s Banes Stats.

MH 1dps = 9.03
OH 1dps = 3.7 EP

Decapitator
92.1 dps
27 crit
567 damage cool down 3 min
(92.1 * 3.7) = 340.77 EP
(27 * 2) = 54 EP

[top] 394. 77 EP

Fool’s Bane socketed
87.5 Dps
28 crit
38 AP
(87.5 * 3.7)

323.75
(28 * 2) = 56
(38 * 1) = 38
= 417.75 EP

My only question is will throwing axe every 3 min be able to close the gap. And of course storm strike damages.. being that the decap has a higher top end damage even though the damage is cut in half by the OH penalty?

It’s my first post don’t flame me as I’m trying to figure out which one to use for OH

Just add the axe throw into the DPS for the Decapitator and count it that way. Since its a 3 minute cooldown its going to be fairly insignificant though, but it might close the gap some.

[e] I'm not sure if the axe On Use gets counted toward the OH penalty, if it doesn't, calculate it using the MH EP value and then add that to the total EP for the Decaptitator as an OH. If it does get counted under the OH penalty, then just figure out the dps (dmg/3min) and add that to the weapon dps and recalculate the total.

The sims that I've run to answer that question for myself always ends with Fool's Bane being better even if you give the Decapitator the approximate 3 dps from the "on use."

I believe this was mentioned before, but I'll update it again since I think the mod name has changed.

I would recommend getting Avion (Formally PowerAura2)
http://www.wowace.com/wiki/Avion

I setup an animated blue shield icon to appear whenever I lose the water sheild buff. Watching a 1minute timer all the time is just too much of a pain for me :P.

I also added one for my invigorate proc from T5.

It looks like flame shock has a higher spell damage coefficient than earth shock. Didn't matter before, but it does now. (Source: Spell damage coefficient - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft)

So flame shock gets 67% of your spell damage over the course of the DoT, compared to earth shock's 43%. Flame shock also has a higher base damage - 797 counting the DoT, vs earth shock's average 675.

Assuming 700 spell damage, Stormstrike, and no other debuffs...

Flame Shock: 377 base direct damage + 420 base DoT damage + 469 bonus from spell damage = 1266 damage

Earth Shock: average 675 base (658-692 damage range) + 301 bonus from spell damage, *1.2 from stormstrike = 1171 damage


So even without CoE and Scorch, flame shock > earth shock.


(I realize these numbers assume raid-buffed AP - around 2300 - but it doesn't matter. The damage from earthshock with SS debuff equals the damage from unbuffed flameshock at... uh, 281 AP. Last I checked we have more than that naked.)

Yeah, I'm now going back to FS ES rotation especially since I think we're gonna have some fire mages again.
I've gotten comfortable raiding with one shock button so I'll just use a /castsequence reset=12 Flame Shock, Earth Shock macro for total ezmode.

I averaged 1079 per non-crit Earth Shock last night. I imagine that it's so low because my raid buffs were limited and only half of my Earth Shocks were getting SS bonus. (Since my high non-crit was 1281) Crit was 6.0%, average crit damage was 1703 with a high of 1848. I had 8.5% resists on Earth Shock. (Total ES damage was 205K for sample size referrence sake.)

What is my average damage per shock including crits and resists?

Non crit (100% - 6.0% - 8.5%) = 85.5% * 1079 = 923
Crit 6.0% * 1703 = 102
923 + 102 = 1025

So I averaged 1025 damage every time I hit my Earth Shock button last nigt. My Earth Shock is on a 5s coold down. So max dps I could have observed last night is 1025/5 = 205dps from Earth Shock.

The only reason i asked is in the OP it show Merciless > Decapitator > Fool Bane for OH which is false if Fools is better than Decap for OH

Hey how's it going guys, I have read your forums for quite some time now. I am glad to see that alot of the stuff I have been doing to increase my dps during raids is supported by math and such.
2 questions, is amor pentration as good as it looks? how much aep is it worth and is it more viable then say crit or streng? Also depending on that answer, what about that new enchant. Is it better than mongoose? Thanks
~Kagarr

I finally finished reading all 4841 posts of this lovely thread, and I wanted to say thanks to Malan, Disqo, Rob, Yo!, Hoof, and everyone else that has made this happen. I'm coming up on being able to hit some raids (not quite level 70) and since my guild is casual, no one there would have been able to help me out to the extent this thread has. Consider this a public Thank you and I promise I won't ask about my optimum +hit or if my 1.5 speed weapon is a good idea.

Not to be rude, but I don't think you have been reading for quite some time. There have been numerous discussions about both topics and the first post contains answers to at least one of them. Yes, I realize 194 pages is a lot to read through, but there is a fantastic tool known as "search this thread".

Actually Rava Section V and Section VIII answer all his questions. And he signed his post. So being rude is ok.

I'm willing to say be 50% rude. Expertise has undergone some major revision and even with the 15.x vs. 3.x figures sorted out, it still isn't as succinct as the other AEP values. Expecting people without a math background to understand what discontinuity and summed across all expertise values means is a bit rough.

As for Executioner, section V clearly indicates we haven't fully sorted it out but Mongoose appears to be better than Executioner particularly at entry gear levels.

So he 50% sucks for not reading the first post.

Small typo in section VIII.

Shoulderpads of the Stranger add 10 expertise rating, at some point in test this wasn't a 1 to 1 ratio? (which is why I'm assuming its 6 here)

Yah it must have been at one point.

I've been thinking more about this and decided to run some numbers to see if we could come up with a decent estimation for EP of Expertise that might belay some of the more painful questions.

Clearly the EP formula relies on estimations of hit EP, crit%, etc. This is going to introduce variability and make so we can never an exact number. I tried to found a boundary case where the floor calculation would be off by the most. At 59 Expertise Rating you have 59/3.95 = 14.94. This is the lowest expertise I could find with the largest difference between exact and floor value.

I then ran the EP calculation for Hit EP values of 1.4 and 1.5. In the most floor disparate case I came up with Expertise EP:Hit EP = 2.05:1. In a case doing floor properly I came up with 1.91:1. This is in line with what another poster came up with several pages back. A lower hit rating value would give something below 1.9:1 For now I'm personally happy to multiply my Hit EP by 1.9 for approximation sake.

It may save lots of dumb questions later to use an approximation similar to this to give Expertise Rating an actual value of 2.55 (T4) and 2.66 (T5) in VIII.1 Itemization - Stat Weights with the note to see further down for a more rigorous treatment.

ps - I understand being annoyed at clearly answered questions and my very first post here received an infraction for ranting about this. I've learned to pipe down, read, and only contribute if I have something worthwhile.

EDIT: Huge oops, sorry Malan, meant Expertise, not Armor Pen

Wait ... what? We already have an EP value for Armor Penetration. 0.25 conservatively, and most will find that its 0.3 when they run the sim.

Corrected post, sorry, I typed in Armor Pen meaning to talk about Expertise.

I'm going to call BS on you here because you try to make people look stupid for bringing up the +Hit argument, when it's the one thing you don't have any numbers for.

Misses cannot proc Windfury or Critical Strikes. Period.

And if you truly believed that hit rating is a stat that wastes stat value at the expense of other things, you would not have the +34 AP and +16 Hit Rating inscription on your T4 headpiece. What makes this even more hypocritical is that, as you've noted on several occasions, Strength gives a much larger benefit in a raid buff situation (BoK, Gift of the Wild) than Attack Power.

So if the choice is between the Lower City inscription (+17 Str, +16 Int) and your +Hit Rating/AP inscription, according to your own Theorycrafting you've chosen the wrong inscription.

And because we keep seeing the +Hit question popping up, apparently I'm not the only one who has noticed a DPS increase when changing from your recommendation (prioritizing only +Hit from talents) and switching to a few pieces of gear that add +Hit. There is no question that +Hit in the 200-range is excessive, but there is every indication that going from around 70-80 +Hit to the 120 - 130 range will lead to a DPS increase.

You've helped a lot of Enhancement Shaman players with your theorycrafting, but it's pretty clear on this issue that, because you see yourself as the authority on these matters, you are reluctant to admit you're wrong. And there's no mistaking, you are wrong here.