Bragor

I am gonna go on a limp here & Say opis is pulling numbers.

Checked his gear & He is very undergeared to pull numbers like that.

Having only 22% Crit/~1350 AP/~12% hit from gear (???) while having some strange gemming really puts your words to stress.

Cause at your current gearing you are pulling more dps then the rogues themselves.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63182wOceL.png

You never know, If you never try.

 

jbartens

Opis Like malan stated if you have 3% in excess tohit then by allmeans go that way. But tbh if you have that much +hit you really need to take a deep look at the OP. And 5% more damage vs 3% less chance to hit with spells. Allready here we have issues regarding efficany for a resto/enhancment build. Agian run Yo!s sim. Read and conclude things your self

 

Khlysti

Under the premise 'for new content survivability > raw dps' and looking ahead to see what spec will be of use in the future, I gave enc/elem a try this week. My expectation was that dps would drop a little from my usual enh/resto but I wanted 'real' in game numbers so I could decide if the survivability gained from Elemental Warding was worth the loss.

I was pleasantly suprised however that once I got used to working with a 5 sec shock cooldown I was putting out very similar numbers to the week before.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft is the build I am using now, and although the shorter range on totems is a slight issue on parts of the hyjal trash the total number of redrops needed is minimal, and mana is a complete non issue. Call of Flame with over 1000 + dam does lead to some fairly impressive fire totem numbers.

So far, for me atleast, it seems the dps difference between enh/resto and enh/elem is very small, small enough that in my opinion the real question is do you prefer the utility of longer range buff totems and improved ankh, along with a few more spare gcds to play with, or the extra survival of elemental warding.

 

tzenes

shocks tend to make up 5-10% of your total dps.

So which is a bigger change... 22% of 10 or 3% of 90?

I'll give you a hint... I'm still enhance/resto

 

Khlysti

3% hit will, unless you have near to 0 hit on gear only effect white hits so on a very simple level its more like 3% of 45%, 0.03*0.45 = 0.0135 0.22*0.1 = 0.022

Those numbers are from earlier posters, and the calculations are clearly very very rough, but enh/resto is not simply 'the right answer' as it used to be, both resto and elem minors are very very similar (at my gear level atleast) at the moment.

 

TradewindKlaatubarada

I don't see how elemental warding is *that* important.

As of now, our mana efficiency is SO big that we're barely on need of Shamanistic Rage to keep mana for the whole fight (assuming no totem twisting).

This leads to the point where you're not using Shamanistic Rage exactly every two minutes, but most of the time you keep it as a strategic factor for certain phases / points of a fight.

So, where you could've needed that edge that elemental warding provides, now you have Shamanistic Rage.

In my opinion end-game is so previsible and so deadly at the same time, that either you prevent that damage or you die to it - elemental warding rarely makes a difference. I could think of Illidan P2 as a useful situation, but the amount of damage you receive there is more dependant on other factors to be such a big deal anyway.

So in my opinion, it is better to go for the 100% active buff (hit) than a situational and rarely life-saving damage reduction.

EDIT: As for the shock damage increase discussion, I'm already too threat capped to think about increasing a bit of DPS that is not affected by the 30% reduction from talents. I tried the spec tho, and couldn't spot such big difference on my usual 7-9% damage from shocks.

 

Audrix

Mod Talk:

I like the wf3sec mod its simple and easy to see. Bad part or not really bad but annoying is that you have to hard code your position values. I use x=-400, y=-100. Some one mention Avion but it doesnt seem to be updated for 2.3. I havent tried yet to see if it works but looking throu this thread it doesnt seem very popular. Also, I remember reading that wf3sec mod would show when invigorate proc but have yet to see it happen. Anyways, I wanted to know if anyone could sugest a mod for tracking water shield/invigorate or probably intergrated with WF3sec kinda look and feel.

thx

 

TradewindKlaatubarada

You have a suggestion in the main post: DisqoDice is quite good at it.

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/1524733HsbqR.png

 

Hedin

1. Update wf3sec from wowace.com
2. use /wf3sec command to tweak it
3. I moved all buffs to MeleeBuffs addon :-)

WF3sec Ace2 - Shows WindFury and Stormstrike cooldowns.

 

Audrix

Cool thx Hed! Havent seen you post in awhile

 

Malan

Opis the only reason you have 19% Hit right now is because you're wearing pre-raid, KZ and ZA stuff. Once you get past T4 raid content all the +Hit on gear vanishes until you start hitting the very end of T6 content. There's a big gap in the content where every upgrade you take drops your hit rating substantially.

[e] bleh didn't see that this had jumped a page already.
[e2] After looking at your gear a little bit more I'm quite skeptical of your 1100 DPS claims.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Tidalclyps

WindfuryWatcher works pretty well also. Should also be on wowace use /wfw unlock /wfw lock to move the indicator.

 

Nigil

might want to include [Bold Crimson Spinel] [Crimson Sun] [Inscribed Pyrestone] and maybe even [Sovereign Shadowsong Amethyst] in the gem section, im sure people in BT will be able to recognise that these gems are better then the blue ones but you never know

 

Malan

You really think its necessary to tell someone that +10 strength is good when there's already a statement saying that +8 strength is good?

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Nigil

not really im just saying more from an up to date standpoint sorry if i sounded critical

 

Beowolf

Not that Opis is correct, but the 'new' damage ratio from abilities, at least according to 1.5 weeks of recount data, seems to be 45% melee, 30% WF, 10% SS and 15% Shocks. Of course, when they finally add support to show Searing Totem, I would wager that a good 20-25% of our damage comes from spells now after the patch. Still, 3% to hit with spells and melee is more useful to the other 40-45% of our damage that still benefits with +hit gear :P Just to be safe though, I'll crunch some numbers at work and see what the story is. 17 million damage done in raid setting is probably a really good parse sample to work with!

 

Opis

I assure you that I'm not exaggerating on the 1100 dps mark. I actually thought that it was a somewhat conservative rounding. It's certainly my very top-end only in the case where threat is not an issue, but good Rogues at my progression level definitely do more than 1100 even when threat is an issue. It was obviously tested in a raid, so I was somewhat buffed. I was working with my own totems, Trueshot Aura, Mark of the Wild, and Leader of the Pack. I didn't give these numbers to boast or argue with any of you.

And yes, 3% of 90% is much more than 22% of 10%, but white damage isn't 90% of your DPS. I was just curious if there was some balancing math on the subject since the advent of 2.3. I'd always assumed that once you approached the hit cap at around 20% or somewhat less, hit percentage started to become less responsible for Windfury procs, thus reducing its straight DPS gain. At that point, I wanted to test the elemental/enhancement build, but I'm honestly too lazy to try the math to support my claim. That's why I came here, to see if it'd already been done.

As far as damage per ability ratios with this build, so far, I'm seeing Melee at 35%, Windfury at 28%, and shocks at around 25%. These numbers will obviously fluctuate somewhat from encounter to encounter. I'll try to get a more concrete comparison with Recap and screenshots as the different specs soon.

 

Illundai

WWS please. I doubt I could do 1100 dps with your gear :/.

Yes, Death Knight tanks are/were too good in 3.0.x. Having 38k HP, 76.81% Avoidance (Miss incl.) and not gimping your threat in the first tier of gear is broken. (Yes this is clickable)

 

Malan

There are still fights where I don't hit 1100 and I'm two tiers of progression above you.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

LazyJoe

Well it depends, even on a full boss fight I noticed our dps can vary a lot. Last time we did magtheridon, I was with the other enhance chaman of my guild (no rogue in raid this day). We have a similar stuff (T4 level + a few T5-level pieces) and we were in the same group. He did a solid 1090 dps while I did only 930 dps. After checking recount, it turned out that he had unusually few dodges (around 2%) over all his attacks, while I had a bit more than normal (~6.5%). This, and other few imbalances made the difference in our dps. But this is not what you may call a large parse, only ~10 minutes of fight so things like this may and will happen from time to time. So, you need very large parses to get a close number to your real dps (or use Yo's simulator which, even if not perfect, is very close to whathappens in a real raid).

 

Illundai

That's nothing new, everyone in this thread (or most of us) realise our DPS may vary a lot. That doesn't take away with his tier of level that 1100 dps is unusually high.

Yes, Death Knight tanks are/were too good in 3.0.x. Having 38k HP, 76.81% Avoidance (Miss incl.) and not gimping your threat in the first tier of gear is broken. (Yes this is clickable)

 

Opis

Is my gear really that awful? I realize that I'm not at Mount Hyjal yet, but my findings are somewhat incongruent with yours. I don't have a current WWS log since 2.3, but I have one prior, from Gruul's. My gear wasn't quite as good as it is now, but I was over 900 dps even then. (I don't know the public link to it, so I took a picture. I'll replace it with a link once the guy who pays for ours provides us with a link that won't get him banned for my posting.)

WWS

(For the record, I was 0/42/19 at the time. I only posted this for reference.)

 

Beowolf

Alright, I'm actually IN MH/BT gear and I do pull about 1050 dps in most raid settings, averaging around 2800 AP when fully raid buffed. As I mentioned before, the damage breakdown has changed in patch 2.3. Where it was once ~95% of damage came from White/WF/SS damage, its now approximately like this:

45% White
30% Windfury
10% Stormstrike
15% Shocks (Any type)

This is taken from my own recount parse of 17 million damage over the last 1.5 weeks in Boss Mobs/Trash circumstances while doing MH/BT, with a dash of ZA thrown in there.

If, like me, you average around 1050 DPS raid buffed with Natures Guidance, your DPS breakdown is as follows:

472.5 White
315 Windfury
105 Storm Strike
157.5 Shocks (any)

And now for some comparison numbers that match my experience. Now as I said, I roughly average 2800 AP raid buffed sustained during fights, giving me on average 840 Spell damage, or 352.8 damage on my Earth Shocks. This means that on average, I hit for around 1200 damage (with SS) every time I cast Earth Shock. With a 14% chance to miss with my spell, I effectively do 1032 damage on each cast (ignoring crits) and at a 6 second cooldown, and taking into account the .25 second lag, that means my Earth Shock does 165.12 DPS, or very roughly in line with the numbers stated above.

Now lets assume I switch my talents to elemental abilities, leaving out the mana cost reduction one as its very unimportant. I lose 3% to hit with spells and melee, but since I am still hit capped for yellow damage, my new damage breakdown would be:

~458.325 White (14.175 DPS loss)
315 Windfury
105 Storm Strike

Now lets take this same 1200 damage Earth Shock. I do 5% more damage, or 1260, but I am resisted 3% more (1045) and cast 1 second faster (5.25) giving me 199.2 DPS. 199.2 - 157.5 = 41.7 DPS gain

41.7 - 14.175 = 27.525 DPS gain overall, or roughly 2.6% increase to overall damage. Clearly this means that a HIGH END shaman that wishes to maximize his damage would want to go elemental instead of Resto.

It should be noted that this damage does NOT include totem damage. My searing totem alone does about 250 damage per hit in the raid: 250 / 1.5 = 166.67 DPS. With 15% more damage to totems, thats 191.6705 DPS, for an additional gain of 25 DPS. This is another ~2.5% DPS gain, bringing the total to a 5% dps gain overall. My 1050 average raid dps would now be 1103.55 or ~1100 on average.

Feel free to check my math, but from the looks of it, I'm going to respec tonight to an elemental/enhancement build :P

Edit: I would like to add again that I have fairly good gear, and that this entire setup hinges on how much AP - Spell Damage you actually gain. I would assume that the switchover from Enhance/Resto to Enhance/Elemental occurs at ROUGHLY the 2200 AP raid buffed average that this guide tells the new Shamans to try to gain. Perhaps we should make a note of this?

 

Toots Hepcat

How the hell does a shaman get a DPS time of 96% on Gruul?

How does a mob with 3.4M health die at 2.7M?

And where's your second tank?

 

Opis

From what I understand, Toots, merging WWS reports sometimes causes players to be lost, along with their damage. I was actually third in damage out. There was a Rogue, Daes, ahead of me. However, the DPS and damage out reports should be accurate for the players remaining.