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Old 11/26/07, 8:36 AM   #5251
Revdarian
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Draenor
It must do a buff check, the totems it doesn´t display are those that do not put a buff over the player but instead pulse an effect, like for example Poison Cleansing, Disease Cleansing, Tremor Totem, etc.

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Old 11/26/07, 2:21 PM   #5252
Danath
Banned
 
Human Paladin
 
Les Sentinelles (EU)
Originally Posted by Disquette View Post
That's *great* info Yo!. I'm going to be looking at these parses more closely to see exactly what can be gleaned.

Ok, so the first thing that I see is that they're in range of the wf totem about 10% less of the time (averaging 36 as opposed to 40 or so WF extra attacks without him vs with him).

Also, the rogues' dps time is about 5% lower in the parses without him, which affects the overall numbers.

Other than that, the data looks pretty good. I don't think it's unreasonable to thing that would be standard - that a resto/elemental shaman wouldn't be able to maintain as much wf uptime/proximity as an enhance shaman. 100dps extra per rogue by having him in the group seems reasonable to me.
Are you talking about the Shaman Enhancement or a Shaman specced in another way when you refer to "him" ultimately?

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Old 11/26/07, 2:43 PM   #5253
berg
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Rogue
 
Tichondrius
This is kind of a 'duh' post but there are too many wws comparing posts and I think I is important for people to consider these ideas when looking at wws parses.

1) You cannot just click random wws reports and compare their shaman numbers with your own. You must also compare total raid dps on their side with your own raid dps. Assume a 4M HP boss. If their raid has 16000 dps and yours has 12000 dps that means their fight was done in 250 seconds and yours in 333. So they were bloodlusted for 16% of their raid and you were bloodlusted for 12% of yours. Your guildmates can have a profound on your dps and it needs to be taken into consideration when analyzing wws parses.

2) Also please remember that there is large variance for enhance dps. Load up Yo's sim and put in all default values and a simulation time of 1 hour. After clicking simulate 10-15 times I had a minimum result of 901 and a maximum result of 951. This is after one hour of simulation meaning this data should be far tighter than anything we would see against a boss. DPS swings in the 5-10% range are to be expected, do not get worried about them.

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Old 11/26/07, 4:05 PM   #5254
Beowolf
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Mox View Post
Chaman2 totem addon from Ace displeys the number of party members within each totems range. I pretty much couldn't play without, it makes totem dropping & selecting a complete breeze.

Edit* - It doesn't show some totems, like tremor for example, not exactly sure why, but it does show the numbers on WF/GoA/SoE/Mana/Healing etc so you can pretty much say if everyones in range of WF, then everyones in range of the others.
Im not finding the Chaman2 totem Addon on the WowAceUpdater or their website. The only return Chaman2 gives me on Curse is a compilation pack. Could you be a tad more specific?

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Old 11/26/07, 4:21 PM   #5255
BoinKlasik
Von Kaiser
 
BoinKlasik's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
Im not finding the Chaman2 totem Addon on the WowAceUpdater or their website. The only return Chaman2 gives me on Curse is a compilation pack. Could you be a tad more specific?
It hasn't been updated in over 30 days according to the version I have installed on my local machine. The problem w/ chaman is that it is actually named something else: "TotemManager" (on Curse<-- that is a link btw, because I can never see them on the EJ forums), the folder is just named chaman.

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Old 11/26/07, 4:28 PM   #5256
Mox
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
Im not finding the Chaman2 totem Addon on the WowAceUpdater or their website. The only return Chaman2 gives me on Curse is a compilation pack. Could you be a tad more specific?
You must not have looked very hard :/ can't be any more specific than the exact addon name.

But heres a link for you, wowace c list then just go down the list to Chaman2 ....

Oh, and just found it on wowaceupdater, in the outdated section.

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Old 11/26/07, 4:32 PM   #5257
Capital
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Dunemaul (EU)
Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
Im not finding the Chaman2 totem Addon on the WowAceUpdater or their website. The only return Chaman2 gives me on Curse is a compilation pack. Could you be a tad more specific?
Chaman2

Edit: Too slow

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Old 11/26/07, 4:37 PM   #5258
Lujaar
King Hippo
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Totemus can also be set to track how many of your party members are in range of your totems. I can't remember the name of the option, but it's the third setting on the slider at the bottom of the timer configuration window. Doesn't track windfury or pulse totems but it does track SoE/GoA/healing stream/mana spring.

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Old 11/26/07, 4:47 PM   #5259
Beowolf
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Mox View Post
You must not have looked very hard :/ can't be any more specific than the exact addon name.

But heres a link for you, wowace c list then just go down the list to Chaman2 ....

Oh, and just found it on wowaceupdater, in the outdated section.
Which is why I didnt see it :P

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Old 11/26/07, 4:49 PM   #5260
rava
sparks keep me warm
 
rava's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Khlysti View Post
But it *is* entirely possible to do this, and keep it sustained for a whole fight. A situation that interupts your cast flow (archi air burst, silences etc) do the same for an enh/resto shaman, and as long as you can instantly recognise what has the highest priority to cast as soon as you are next able it works out fine.

For the non air totems they can be redropped in the 'spare' gcd one at a time, no need to be doing a mass redrop all at once. And I haven't found any fight (including trash) where I cannot keep my group fully totemed the whole time.

The point here is not to try and convince people that enh/ele is better than enh/resto, just that they are both equally viable. Neither has a noticable total raid dps lead on the other, they do however offer a slightly different play style from each other. People should be trying them both and going with what they like and works for them, not trying to get the answer to 'which is best for all shaman', because as things stand there is no answer.
I thought that this went without saying, but there is no way in hell you are going to have the mana to support this. With 8k buffed mana(pretty high estimate) and simply doing 2 shocks/10 sec, 2 totems/10 sec, Stormstrike, Searing/1min, and Mana Spring/SoE/2min you run into ~1800 mana/10 sec period. Now, with water shield, mana spring, and wisdom(lolright?) you still fall ~220/5 short of keeping up 1800 mana/10 sec, not including fire nova and searing totem rotations.

Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.

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Old 11/26/07, 5:30 PM   #5261
Garlik
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Aggramar (EU)
sorry if this has been answerd before, gone through main post and last few pages and couldnt find an answer*

when it comes to pvp , what would be a better weapon enchant choice? mongoose/mongoose or mongoose/exe ?

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Old 11/26/07, 6:04 PM   #5262
justinr
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Garlik View Post
sorry if this has been answerd before, gone through main post and last few pages and couldnt find an answer*

when it comes to pvp , what would be a better weapon enchant choice? mongoose/mongoose or mongoose/exe ?
I think this thread is pretty much dedicated to PvE, but I'll answer anyway.

Without throwing around any numbers:

Assume Mongoose and Executioner are very close to equal in terms of plain vannilla dps increase.
Mongoose increases DPS through crit, which is mitigated by resiliance (crits do less bonus damage).
PvP gear now has passive armor pen, Amor Pen is better when you've got more of it.

Executioner doesn't increase your dodge though. Dodging helps you defensivly against warriors(somewhat) and rogues when they can't get behind you.

I'm going to assume that Mongoose/executioner is your better pvp option for most cases.

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Old 11/26/07, 6:20 PM   #5263
Atren
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Shattered Halls (EU)
Dodge helps against rogues while you are not stunned, only exception being with 41 combat talent finishers cant be dodged i think?

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Old 11/26/07, 6:27 PM   #5264
justinr
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Tichondrius
A question to other BT/Hijal Shamans:
How are you adjusting your EP numbers for mental quickness? (Yo's sim is a little broken atm)

I've been trying to evaluate some gear using my own personal EP from Yo's simulator. (Thank you for this wonderfull tool that keeps my entertained durring my working hours. My boss however would probably not like you because of that.) But I was getting some wildely different values from it for the exact same sim inputs. I read the notes below it and saw:

EP calculation unstability when using 30% ap to spell damage talent option
So I guess I'll have to turn that off untill its fixed? In the mean time how should I calculate these numbers? I've been tempted to turn that option off and just fudge the numbers a bit since I know it would make my other stats slightly lower in EP weight. How have you adjusted your numbers and why?

I'm not asking for my numbers to be calculated for me, I'd just like to hear how others are doing their own (and their reasoning) so I can decide the best way to do mine.

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Old 11/26/07, 7:07 PM   #5265
Bdatik
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by justinr View Post
So I guess I'll have to turn that off untill its fixed? In the mean time how should I calculate these numbers? I've been tempted to turn that option off and just fudge the numbers a bit since I know it would make my other stats slightly lower in EP weight. How have you adjusted your numbers and why?

I'm not asking for my numbers to be calculated for me, I'd just like to hear how others are doing their own (and their reasoning) so I can decide the best way to do mine.
I believe Yo! said a couple pages back that you should turn it off (like you assumed). Then run your numbers and subtract 0.1 - 0.2 from all stats except Strength and Attack Power.

Ahh, here we go:

Originally Posted by Yo! View Post
Variation of EP (AEP) values is too high after selecting AP->dmg conversion making EP values produced with it being "on" unreliable. Use sim without conversion and substruct 0.1-0.2 from all values except Str and AP as a workaround for now.

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Old 11/26/07, 7:19 PM   #5266
rava
sparks keep me warm
 
rava's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by justinr View Post
A question to other BT/Hijal Shamans:
How are you adjusting your EP numbers for mental quickness? (Yo's sim is a little broken atm)

I've been trying to evaluate some gear using my own personal EP from Yo's simulator. (Thank you for this wonderfull tool that keeps my entertained durring my working hours. My boss however would probably not like you because of that.) But I was getting some wildely different values from it for the exact same sim inputs. I read the notes below it and saw:



So I guess I'll have to turn that off untill its fixed? In the mean time how should I calculate these numbers? I've been tempted to turn that option off and just fudge the numbers a bit since I know it would make my other stats slightly lower in EP weight. How have you adjusted your numbers and why?

I'm not asking for my numbers to be calculated for me, I'd just like to hear how others are doing their own (and their reasoning) so I can decide the best way to do mine.
To be honest, I don't think any of the "best" items have changed since my gear has got better. Base values -> Inflated values each slot still has clear winners, the only real difference is the total points an item is worth is much higher.

Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.

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Old 11/26/07, 8:10 PM   #5267
justinr
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Bdatik View Post
I believe Yo! said a couple pages back that you should turn it off (like you assumed). Then run your numbers and subtract 0.1 - 0.2 from all stats except Strength and Attack Power.

Ahh, here we go:
Ah thanks.

To be honest, I don't think any of the "best" items have changed since my gear has got better. Base values -> Inflated values each slot still has clear winners, the only real difference is the total points an item is worth is much higher.
I was doing my comparisons on some badge gear to replace some old items for things I haven't been able to get the best items for yet. Just something to keep me busy outside raiding. :P (like leather badge pants vs T5 that I haven't gotten bow stiched to replace yet)

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Old 11/26/07, 10:46 PM   #5268
Disquette
1) press clutch and break 2) turn key
 
Disquette's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by Danath View Post
Are you talking about the Shaman Enhancement or a Shaman specced in another way when you refer to "him" ultimately?
I meant that having an enhancement shaman in the group with the rogues seemed to provide about 100 dps extra than having a non-enhance shaman (but still a shaman!) in that group. This comes partially from UR, partially from higher WF access uptime and enhanced melee totems.

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Old 11/26/07, 11:50 PM   #5269
JulianMaiev
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Maiev
A quick search didn't find any math on this, but I might have missed it-- is it possible that an Elemental Devastation build could be viable assuming that you are casting frost shocks of some rank, that you have an additional 10% crit from Winter's Chill, and that you have 3% crit from Imp JotC?

I understand that's a lot of assumptions, but that should put you at around an 18% crit rate. Since the recent round of math seems to have ele/enh builds very close to enh/resto builds anyway, might that be a worthwhile place to invest a couple of talent points?

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Old 11/27/07, 4:16 AM   #5270
Psibeast
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
The Venture Co
Having reached 4 piece T5 and the awsome set bonus that comes with it I was looking forward to what T6 has to offer and it seems very bad compared to the T5 set bonuses. Each piece by itself is an improvement as stats go, but the set bonuses are much worse.

I wanted to ask other shaman who are doing MH/BT and had 4 pc. T5 bonus, did you go for T6, or did you stick with 4 pieces of T5 to keep the bonus and just upgraded other slots? Is it worth losing the set bonus for the extra stats on the T6 gear?

Thanks

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Old 11/27/07, 4:53 AM   #5271
Skiace
Don Flamenco
 
Skiace's Avatar
 
Troll Shaman
 
Dalaran
Originally Posted by JulianMaiev View Post
A quick search didn't find any math on this, but I might have missed it-- is it possible that an Elemental Devastation build could be viable assuming that you are casting frost shocks of some rank, that you have an additional 10% crit from Winter's Chill, and that you have 3% crit from Imp JotC?

I understand that's a lot of assumptions, but that should put you at around an 18% crit rate. Since the recent round of math seems to have ele/enh builds very close to enh/resto builds anyway, might that be a worthwhile place to invest a couple of talent points?
There was significant discussion of this very topic within the last 10 pages or so.

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Old 11/27/07, 5:15 AM   #5272
Abakus
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Alexstrasza (EU)
Originally Posted by Garlik
sorry if this has been answerd before, gone through main post and last few pages and couldnt find an answer*

when it comes to pvp , what would be a better weapon enchant choice? mongoose/mongoose or mongoose/exe ?
It depends on which bracket you are playing.

But for most matchups, i would recommend exec/mongoose, as crits result in many beneficial effects on most classes. More to purge means you might miss that one important BoP/BoF.

As S3-Gear has some armor pen on it to stack with exec, imho just go exec/mogoose

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Old 11/27/07, 9:58 AM   #5273
panny
Bald Bull
 
panny's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by rava View Post
I thought that this went without saying, but there is no way in hell you are going to have the mana to support this. With 8k buffed mana(pretty high estimate) and simply doing 2 shocks/10 sec, 2 totems/10 sec, Stormstrike, Searing/1min, and Mana Spring/SoE/2min you run into ~1800 mana/10 sec period. Now, with water shield, mana spring, and wisdom(lolright?) you still fall ~220/5 short of keeping up 1800 mana/10 sec, not including fire nova and searing totem rotations.
Don't forget the mana gains of Shamanistic Rage!

But I do agree that doing a full shock/twisting/totem rotation isn't possible due to GCD problems.


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Old 11/27/07, 10:24 AM   #5274
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by panny View Post
But I do agree that doing a full shock/twisting/totem rotation isn't possible due to GCD problems.
Its possible, I was doing it on Teron Gorefiend on Sunday night. It wasn't exactly a full shock rotation though, but I would refresh the totems, stormstrike and then shock at whatever opening I had between those three actions. I was able to maintain it for about 3/4 of the fight I'd say before the mana usage overtook what the SR timer was able to produce. That was with JoW up as well.

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Old 11/27/07, 10:30 AM   #5275
refused
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Bloodscalp
Gladiator Fist Weapons

I spent this weekend accruing honor points to get some decent weapons and a shield. I was reading through this post and I tried reading though some of these follow up posts but over a hundred is kind of hard ;) , so I apologize if these issues have been discussed already.

All I saw discussed was using the Gladiator maces/axes set for duel weilders. My question is why not get the Fist set? Is it better to have the consistant range of a higher base hit and lower top end damage weapon like the maces/axe set or would one want to get the fist set with a lower base range and higher top end damage to hopefully get bigger number hits/crits? They are both the same speed so with WF on them it wouldn't be a difference in that respect. This would be in regards to BOTH PvP and PvE.

In PvP I didn't see anything said about using a sheild against warriors/rogues/hunters/pallies - stun classes (in general there was no mention of what sheild to grab in the list of items for us). I always thought that should be a rule of thumb but am I wrong here? (I should mention that 1/2 my gear is rogue epic Kara gear at the moment until I get better mail gear). I'm having a very hard time with those classes at the moment and I can only win if they have sub-par weapons/gear.

Some thoughts about these two questions would be great. Thanks in advance!

Last edited by refused : 11/27/07 at 11:15 AM.

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