I help my shaman friend theory craft to figure out the best gear possible for him. I have been using yo's simulator all morning to try to figure out where to go from his stat level currently. He is in a BT guild that downs illiden every week and have most of his gear from there.
The numbers we have input into the simulator have been basically an assumed average, but we feel they are fairly close to what they are generally at. We are doing these calculations based on being 100% raid buffed, because for us soloing dost matter. The stats are as follows
2100 AP
43% Crit (Druid and Ret pally buff may make this higher)
14.83% Hit
4.31% Haste
83 Armor Pen
1.88 hasted weapon speed for both weps
When i put these stats into the simulator and run a test to 10000 hours of hack and slash it appears that the AEP for Hit and Haste are actually higher than that of Crit and Agi at this point in his gear spectrum. Is this actually possible?
Thanks for all the help and answers,
Stars & Blazin!
Last edited by Starsprophet : 12/02/07 at 5:32 PM.
First of all gratz to this forum, as its a valuable vault of information World of Warcraft have many myths that users transfer them from realm to realm, so with your help, lets have some final answers
The following is PvE Specced questions
01) Ench Shaman needs slow weapons. Ench Shaman with fast weapons, doesnt know to play at all. (true/false)
02) Ench Shaman best relic is Astral Winds (true/false)
03) Ench Shaman best relic is Stonebreaker's Totem (from Badges) (true/false)
04) Ench Shaman must have at least 200 Hit Rating, so he can produce serious damage (true/false)
05) Ench Shaman must have 150 max hit rating, so he can produce serious damage (true/false)
06) Ench Shaman doesnt need ap gems. He must have instead strength gems equipped (true/false)
07) Ench Shaman doest need much ap. After 1600-1700, is useless (true/false)
08) Ench Shaman doesnt need much Critical Rating. After 24-25% is useless (true/false)
09) Ench Shaman must play always with Strength Totem, Agility if he have Drood on the party else Wf for the rogues / tanks. (true/false)
10) Ench Shaman must enchant on weapon is +20Strength. Mongoose is useless for him (true/false)
11) Ench Shaman must enchants are Executioner + Mongoose (true/false)
12) Ench Shaman to be best equipped, must have equipment from other classes, like rogues for example. With only mail, Ench shaman cant do serious damage (true/false)
Those were the biggest myths (?) i have heared till now Maybe some of them are true, some are false Just True / False, from someone who knows what he does
Sorry that all are for Ench shaman, i dont have knowledge for other specs
What the hell is an Ench shaman? Enhancement, say it with me. There is a consonant and a vowel before the "C".
Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.
I help my shaman friend theory craft to figure out the best gear possible for him. I have been using yo's simulator all morning to try to figure out where to go from his stat level currently. He is in a BT guild that downs illiden every week and have most of his gear from there.
The numbers we have input into the simulator have been basically an assumed average, but we feel they are fairly close to what they are generally at. We are doing these calculations based on being 100% raid buffed, because for us soloing dost matter. The stats are as follows
2100 AP
43% Crit (Druid and Ret pally buff may make this higher)
14.83% Hit
4.31% Haste
83 Armor Pen
1.88 hasted weapon speed for both weps
When i put these stats into the simulator and run a test to 10000 hours of hack and slash it appears that the AEP for Hit and Haste are actually higher than that of Crit and Agi at this point in his gear spectrum. Is this actually possible?
Thanks for all the help and answers,
Stars & Blazin!
A: There is a tab called "Buffs and Debuffs". The main window is for your unbuffed stats. One minor thing you have to do for kings, as noted in the FAQ: If you are expecting BoK - use fully buffed values with BoK and turn BoK on on Procs&Stuff tab. Your other stats should remain unbuffed and you should check them in the buffs tab, because chances are you've never clicked on that tab and you are double counting buffs. It is more than possible for hit and haste to outscaleCrit and agi(especially agi). As one stat improves the others become more valuable, I'm pretty sure this discussion has took place many times on this thread.
Btw- he has awful, awful weapons for being in his raiding position.
Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.
The increased value of haste and hit directly effects white damage. The best option he has for boosting damage, according to the sim, is to boost his white damage output. I think that the values would be different with weapons that better matched the gear level. Try inputting values for the S3 gladiator weapons, and see what the result is, just for kicks.
Productive comment. Ty for sharing the knowledge mate...
Actually grammar and spelling are considered here, take a gander at the Banhammer forum for examples. ANYWAYS, back to talking about enhancement shamans! Most, if not all, of your questions are throughly covered in the first post. Learn it, live it, love it, tattoo it to the inside of your eyelids. But in the interest of being "productive":
1) True
2) False
3) True
4) False
5) False
6) True
7) False
8) False
9) False
10) False
11) Ehh... me personally I'd say True, I use Mongoose/Executioner.
12) False. There are better pieces for some slots that are leather, but only using mail is a perfectly fine option.
And don't apologize that it's only covering enhancement spec, that's all we care about in this thread.
Last edited by Krom[Fenris] : 12/02/07 at 6:24 PM.
Im going to try to run a SSC 5/6 clear with Executioner/Mongoose and then next week with Dual Executioner and see how the numbers compare. I understand that 1 test isn't really a great sample size for attempts, but if the numbers are signficant enough while the crit percentage isn't that far off from paper doll stats after buff, then it is a decent test.
A: There is a tab called "Buffs and Debuffs". The main window is for your unbuffed stats. One minor thing you have to do for kings, as noted in the FAQ: If you are expecting BoK - use fully buffed values with BoK and turn BoK on on Procs&Stuff tab. Your other stats should remain unbuffed and you should check them in the buffs tab, because chances are you've never clicked on that tab and you are double counting buffs. It is more than possible for hit and haste to outscaleCrit and agi(especially agi). As one stat improves the others become more valuable, I'm pretty sure this discussion has took place many times on this thread.
Btw- he has awful, awful weapons for being in his raiding position.
thanks for the input for some reason i didn't think of this. Ill re-run the tests
As for the weapons, its not his fault that he dost have better. After about 8-10 clears on bt neither Rising Tide or Syphon of the Nathrezim have dropped. And BTW the season 2 axe is still not an awful wep at that level.
I don´t see why people answer to this myth No.6 always with yes. This is only necessary if you will get BoK otherwise its completely equal Just no difference, so if you only have two Paladins nobody cares what Stones you use ...
Also 11) is not necessarily true, it simply depends on you individual EP values for either Armor Pen or Agi / Haste.
And 12) is False too, you can put out decent damage by using Mail on all slots. I mean even the Tier sets are not that bad (even T6 is sometimes usefull) ...
I don´t like those true/false situations anyway, because they break down something too far, it simply is not as easy as you described it. I personally would not sign anything but points 1 and 3 the rest in this final statements is imho plain wrong ...
I don´t see why people answer to this myth No.6 always with yes. This is only necessary if you will get BoK otherwise its completely equal Just no difference, so if you only have two Paladins nobody cares what Stones you use ...
As -X% to stats debuffs essentially vanished in TBC (and never existed in raids in the first place), there is no situation where AP gems are better than STR gems, while there are situations where STR gems are better. The gems cost the same amount, as neither cut is rare and they use the same base gem. As the STR gem is strictly better than the AP gem, there is no reason to ever use the AP gem.
Anybody in high end game facing the same dilemma as me ?
As I gain gear that will provide the optimum dps gains I am loosing base HP that will literally make me squish able in some encounters.
At the moment I am having as in "AP Gain Vs HP Loss".
Heres the unbuffed base stats if people are interested in knowing it :
34.85% Crit
1688 AP
8.81% hit (From Gear alone)
8091 Hp <== Thats lower then our mages & Shadow priests.
Only solution I find to it is to have some decent hp gear in the bags (Hai pvp gear) but other then that it's becoming harder & harder just to stay alive.
Anybody in high end game facing the same dilemma as me ?
As I gain gear that will provide the optimum dps gains I am loosing base HP that will literally make me squish able in some encounters.
At the moment I am having as in "AP Gain Vs HP Loss".
Heres the unbuffed base stats if people are interested in knowing it :
34.85% Crit
1688 AP
8.81% hit (From Gear alone)
8091 Hp <== Thats lower then our mages & Shadow priests.
Only solution I find to it is to have some decent hp gear in the bags (Hai pvp gear) but other then that it's becoming harder & harder just to stay alive.
I'm at 9309 base(thanks s3 weapons), but even without the 60 stam from those I'd be at 8709 so I can only guess with such low HP numbers you're running around with Supremus neck, Souls belt, and Syphons? There are plenty of alternatives to those slots like the trash neck, either mail or leather haste belt, money belt, and s3(or even s2) weapons.
I'm not entirely sure why you are worried about your HP at that number, the only real fights with any raid damage are Azgalor and Council where the damage can be heavily mitigated by fire resistance(Az) and just being aware of your surroundings(both).
Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.
To Bragor: picking up T6 helps a lot. I personally prefer wearing leather/non-set/stamina-less items, but I still get over 10k HP fully buffed and thus experience no real problems.
Sorry guys two questions if you'll bear with me.
First, anyone else notice that the 15% to 30% threat buff isn't terribly noticable? Previous to the threat change I was right under the tank on threat. Now I'm doing about the same and still using the 10k threat marker to keep it. Both with Salvation and raid buffed. The tank's/threat build hasn't changed and my gear hasn't changed so I'm a little confused.
Has anyone else run into this problem?
Second, However I've read over this 100 times and I just get get maximum dps. I read somewhere in the 200 thread pages about a /stop attack macro can anyone help explain this as the first page doesn't make any reference to it.
Sorry guys two questions if you'll bear with me.
First, anyone else notice that the 15% to 30% threat buff isn't terribly noticable? Previous to the threat change I was right under the tank on threat. Now I'm doing about the same and still using the 10k threat marker to keep it. Both with Salvation and raid buffed. The tank's/threat build hasn't changed and my gear hasn't changed so I'm a little confused.
Has anyone else run into this problem?
Second, However I've read over this 100 times and I just get get maximum dps. I read somewhere in the 200 thread pages about a /stop attack macro can anyone help explain this as the first page doesn't make any reference to it.
Haven't really been threat capped since the patch if blessed with salvation. To me, it sounds like a tank issue. Compare the tps values they are putting out and try to compare them with similar geared raid tank tps output.
And can't really answer to your second question but saying that I am not using any kind of stop attack macro. I wonder if some do.
Sorry guys two questions if you'll bear with me.
First, anyone else notice that the 15% to 30% threat buff isn't terribly noticable? Previous to the threat change I was right under the tank on threat. Now I'm doing about the same and still using the 10k threat marker to keep it. Both with Salvation and raid buffed. The tank's/threat build hasn't changed and my gear hasn't changed so I'm a little confused.
Has anyone else run into this problem?
Second, However I've read over this 100 times and I just get get maximum dps. I read somewhere in the 200 thread pages about a /stop attack macro can anyone help explain this as the first page doesn't make any reference to it.
Are you talking about the macro you would use when you move in and out of melee range with the mob? I think those were supposed to be useful because you hit with your offhand first when coming back into melee range and thats a nono when you want WF procs off the main hand. Your t button by default is bound to "toggle attack" and I have simply bound my stormstrike button to:
/startattack
/cast Stormstrike
After that I can simply click off the mob or hit t to stop attacking, whichever I feel like. /stopattack would be the opposite command to startattack though.
Are you talking about the macro you would use when you move in and out of melee range with the mob? I think those were supposed to be useful because you hit with your offhand first when coming back into melee range and thats a nono when you want WF procs off the main hand. Your t button by default is bound to "toggle attack" and I have simply bound my stormstrike button to:
/startattack
/cast Stormstrike
After that I can simply click off the mob or hit t to stop attacking, whichever I feel like. /stopattack would be the opposite command to startattack though.
Cheers for that. I was trying to figure out what it is.
Stupid question, but have you updated your addons that show you that threat? Also how often you shock and do you shock more often after patch? As shocks get no threat reduction from that talent.
Sorry guys two questions if you'll bear with me.
First, anyone else notice that the 15% to 30% threat buff isn't terribly noticable? Previous to the threat change I was right under the tank on threat. Now I'm doing about the same and still using the 10k threat marker to keep it. Both with Salvation and raid buffed. The tank's/threat build hasn't changed and my gear hasn't changed so I'm a little confused.
Has anyone else run into this problem?
I think when you stop your shocks (should be the case everytime you hit an aggro ceiling), you will notice a pretty significant decrease in aggro generation.
Our physical damage got the threat reduction, but the shocks increased in damage (and did not get the threat reduction).
Also, you might use shocks more frequently because of our better mana regeneration (cheaper shocks, awesome water shield) since 2.3, resulting in higher dps & tps.
Sorry guys two questions if you'll bear with me.
First, anyone else notice that the 15% to 30% threat buff isn't terribly noticable? Previous to the threat change I was right under the tank on threat. Now I'm doing about the same and still using the 10k threat marker to keep it. Both with Salvation and raid buffed. The tank's/threat build hasn't changed and my gear hasn't changed so I'm a little confused.
Has anyone else run into this problem?
It looks like you're logged out with raid buffs, but I don't see salvation. If you only get one blessing, make it salvation.
Regardless of whether you notice it or not its still a 15% increase in the amount of threat you can safely generate.
Anecdotal evidence - Executioner is amazing in a raid environment if you like big numbers. I was seeing WF sum damage of over 5k when the buff was up.
Question - what value are people using for Meta Gem sockets in Pawn? I need a better way to compare a helm with RED to a helm with 3 normal sockets. My current Pawn string just gives meta gems like 50 EP or so but it results in some odd values.
Regardless of whether you notice it or not its still a 15% increase in the amount of threat you can safely generate.
Anecdotal evidence - Executioner is amazing in a raid environment if you like big numbers. I was seeing WF sum damage of over 5k when the buff was up.
.
Thanks for the help. I always have salvation and try to kept the same shock rotations, I saw a very very slight difference but I guess it was just me.
I've been seeing the same numbers Malan on my WF crits when the proc is up.
Anecdotal evidence - Executioner is amazing in a raid environment if you like big numbers. I was seeing WF sum damage of over 5k when the buff was up.
Speaking of big numbers and summing WF damage, does anyone know of a mod that will total up your attack + WF damage in the combat log? Ideally would do so for Stormstrike and Windfury. Something like:
You hit mob for 300.
Your Windfury Attack crits mob for 1000.
Your Windfury Attack hits mob for 500. Your total attack hits mob for 1800.
Speaking of big numbers and summing WF damage, does anyone know of a mod that will total up your attack + WF damage in the combat log? Something like:
You hit mob for 300.
Your Windfury Attack crits mob for 1000.
Your Windfury Attack hits mob for 500. Your total attack hits mob for 1800.
WindfuryFU will do that for you. It also prints it on the screen.
Also, one thing that I've noticed is that if I'm not attacking and I start attacking with SS usually the OH procs WF if it procs from SS whereas if I first toggle attack and then immieatly after use SS then MH usually procs WF.
I have no evidence for this but it seems like this to me. Of course I do this in melee range in both cases and I'm not using the /startattack in SS macro.
Anyone noticed this or have any ideas? Will /startattack macro "solve" this for me? Or am I just paranoid?
12/02/07, 3:00 PM
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