Any chance we get this baby updated with expertise? Or does Pawn still not support Expertise
Pawn does indeed support Expertise rating now, although you don't need the strings anymore at all. Simply type /pawn and window comes up, you can input the stats directly.
@Brum - not sure if thats the post I was referring too although thats similar. The one I remember actually had a chart and it was done using Yo's sim, not in-game.
Thanks, I missed that paragraph. The point of my post wasn't to argue that one weapon combo is better than another, but to give people some numbers to work with, as I hadn't recalled seeing any. After searching, I think I found the post Malan is referencing here, though the poster doesn't include any sim data
From his post, Ikuturso hit a Blasted Lands mob using both combos Rod of the Sun King/Syphon for 30 minutes with each combo, and didn't use Stormstrike. My tests lasted over two hours with each combo and I used Stormstrike. His tests yielded ~5% difference in the percentage of WFs eaten by the MH between combos, and mine yielded ~3% difference. I can't really draw any conclusions except that there's a discrepancy, but I find any live tests shorter than an hour don't allow enough time to smooth proc streakiness. So maybe my test is more accurate, but it doesn't seem to be any more useful atm. Guess I should find the average WF and SS dmg for each combo so I can refute/support Ikuturso's findings
Here is the post with charts from simple sim showing how many WFs are "stolen" by another hand depending on different weapon speeds. http://elitistjerks.com/455208-post1615.html
Charts are almost symmetric in 2.5-2.8 area and it was unclear from them, if 2.6/2.8 weapon combo is better over 2.8/2.6. Partially in attempt to find an answer I wrote complex sim and result it gives is 2.6/2.8=2.8/2.6.
Here is another, more clear combined chart for Malan's section of wiki: http://elitistjerks.com/471640-post2280.html
Your data is of course valuable as it is from game.
I am really sorry if this has been asked, or if this isn't the place to ask, but I am levelling a shaman, and would like to know what stat to prioritize: str, agi, AP? And how to check this by myself?
Tried tinkering with Crazy Shaman's DPS & AEP calculator (c) Yo which hung up on me (guess it wasn't designed for values of a lvl22 shaman :p )
If someone has more general info/tips about pexing low level shammies, feel free to post or MP!
I am really sorry if this has been asked, or if this isn't the place to ask, but I am levelling a shaman, and would like to know what stat to prioritize: str, agi, AP? And how to check this by myself?
Tried tinkering with Crazy Shaman's DPS & AEP calculator (c) Yo which hung up on me (guess it wasn't designed for values of a lvl22 shaman :p )
If someone has more general info/tips about pexing low level shammies, feel free to post or MP!
I guess it's not that important at low levels, but generally Str > Agi > AP. Up to level 30, where you get Windfury, it might even be a good idea to collect a bit of spell damage to augment Flametongue. But below 60 (maybe even below 70) your best bet is to check the AH and do instances regularly to keep your gear up to date. In this thread (if you haven't read it already) you can find lots of great hints on how to improve your gear early on. And, by the way, how do you know the simulator has hung up? Depending on your PC and the number of hours you wanted it to simulate, it can take quite a while to finish. Try a really low hour setting (1 hr, maybe) and see if it runs through. Then work your way up.
On an unrelated note, I have a question myself. Various sources (most notably the "manual" for DisqoDice's WF cooldown timer) suggest that it is a good idea to wait with Stormstrike until the WF cooldown is ready again. Why is that? Maybe it would be a good idea to include the answer in the "Windfury Mechanics" section of the OP.
On an unrelated note, I have a question myself. Various sources (most notably the "manual" for DisqoDice's WF cooldown timer) suggest that it is a good idea to wait with Stormstrike until the WF cooldown is ready again. Why is that? Maybe it would be a good idea to include the answer in the "Windfury Mechanics" section of the OP.
Because Stormstrike can proc windfury, actually it's 2 hits so it has 2 chances of proccing windfury, if windfury isn't on "cooldown".
On an unrelated note, I have a question myself. Various sources (most notably the "manual" for DisqoDice's WF cooldown timer) suggest that it is a good idea to wait with Stormstrike until the WF cooldown is ready again. Why is that? Maybe it would be a good idea to include the answer in the "Windfury Mechanics" section of the OP.
Generally speaking it's only worth waiting if the WF CD is <1 sec left, if you start wasting time waiting for WF CD it's not going to improve your dps.
I really still need a link to that dev chat where a question was asked about WF vs FT scaling and the devs basically said "yah we know its better and no we don't plan to do anything about it." I've done some googling and checked the wow stratics dev chats and can't locate it, anyone remember which chat that was?
I am really sorry if this has been asked, or if this isn't the place to ask, but I am levelling a shaman, and would like to know what stat to prioritize: str, agi, AP? And how to check this by myself?
Tried tinkering with Crazy Shaman's DPS & AEP calculator (c) Yo which hung up on me (guess it wasn't designed for values of a lvl22 shaman :p )
If someone has more general info/tips about pexing low level shammies, feel free to post or MP!
Others may disagree, but +hit is actually a very decent stat while leveling for any dual wielding class. Otherwise, I'd just try to keep a decent balance of crit and AP.
Others may disagree, but +hit is actually a very decent stat while leveling for any dual wielding class. Otherwise, I'd just try to keep a decent balance of crit and AP.
I don't think it is so much that as much as most people don't really bother min/maxing while they are leveling. Particularly with the speed of leveling now any gear you get at level 25 just makes less an less of a difference in your quest to make 70.
Now if we are talking BG twinking that is a different deal all together, but I don't think he was.
If you're leveling a new shaman you need to avoid Dual Wielding for as long as possible, there's just not enough Hit Rating available until the mid to late 50s and you'll be very hard pressed to find slow enough weapons. Stick with slow 2H weapons until you're almost to Outland.
If you're leveling a new shaman you need to avoid Dual Wielding for as long as possible, there's just not enough Hit Rating available until the mid to late 50s and you'll be very hard pressed to find slow enough weapons. Stick with slow 2H weapons until you're almost to Outland.
Thought this called for simulation: 200 AP, 10% crit, 0% hit, no buffs, no shocks, talents commensurate with level 42 (Flurry, DW & SS), attacking a mob with 2000 armor.
Personally, I'd say that you're absolutely fine to go DW once you hit level 44 and can be specced into Stormstrike and 3/3 Dual Wield Specialization. That's certainly enough hit rating to make it worthwhile.
The only downside is that you end up needing to find two nice one-hands, but if you can't find two slow weapons I don't think there's a big problem using a MH with WF and an OH with FT.
If you're leveling a new shaman you need to avoid Dual Wielding for as long as possible, there's just not enough Hit Rating available until the mid to late 50s and you'll be very hard pressed to find slow enough weapons. Stick with slow 2H weapons until you're almost to Outland.
I guess my AH must be more robust than most, since I've already got green offhand maces "of the Tiger" at level 42 (2.7 speed) and 48 (2.8 speed) stashed away for when my wee one gets to those levels. My playing around with the simulator gave similar results to Toots (although I used slightly higher numbers for AP and crit). I understand that the simulator may not be perfect for lower levels, but as I blast through levels I don't think it's going to be often that I'm fighting mobs more than +1, especially since the quest xp boosts mean I won't be grinding much, if at all. At those relative mob levels, is +hit really all that necessary?
Here is the post with charts from simple sim showing how many WFs are "stolen" by another hand depending on different weapon speeds. http://elitistjerks.com/455208-post1615.html
Charts are almost symmetric in 2.5-2.8 area and it was unclear from them, if 2.6/2.8 weapon combo is better over 2.8/2.6. Partially in attempt to find an answer I wrote complex sim and result it gives is 2.6/2.8=2.8/2.6.
Here is another, more clear combined chart for Malan's section of wiki: http://elitistjerks.com/471640-post2280.html
Your data is of course valuable as it is from game.
After this post there was a bit of discussion about theridge in the graph for equal-speed weapons. They appear inferior, but then someone asked if the sim took into account the benefit match-speed weapons had from both being haste for the final (third) hit in flurry. Yo said that the sim did not account for that. I did not see any further discussion about this on the following few pages.
Did further work show that the third-flurry-hit benefit outweighs the loss shown in the sim, for DWing identical-speed weapons?
If you'd like to plug in some "accurate" numbers, I have a 45 shaman. I have 392 AP, 12.76% crit, 127 str, 86 agi. My weapons are 2.7/2.2 (I know I need a slower off-hand). Some +hit would certainly be nice... I do seem to have quite a miss rate.
For equipment choices, I've been using the "pre-raid" pawn string provided in the original post. I'm not sure how accurate it is for leveling up since it is designed for lvl 70 but it seems to have worked well thus far. My gear is all quest rewards or AH greens.
As Pyre mentions, it is usually not necessary to fight +1 or higher mobs a whole lot, since it is pretty effective to do lower quests and reap the extra quest xp via quicker killing.
I have small problem (propably it's not a problem but low AP compared to rest of the stats I have). Been running Yo's sim for hours to get decent average values for stats. I should have kings changes added correctly and typical buffs I have tagged. Also simulator dps values are quite correct what I can do in "perfect" situation.
I really get low value for crit and agi compared to example stats on first post.
Armor pen, haste and hit rating looks pretty much ok but crit/agi values are quite low. It just might be that I have too low AP which would favour AP heavily for a while... Those values doesn't seem to affect that much for possible upgrades I could have in near future.
(It currently appears to be down for some reason, but I have 570 AP, 11.74% crit, and 6% hit, wielding a 2.7 speed 32.3 DPS MH and a 2.7 speed 28.1 DPS OH.)
Strength is actually significantly more important than agility/crit rating at earlier levels, due to crits scaling based on AP. It's easy to start DWing at 44 when you max out DW Specialization (even before) simply because having your AP scale better generally outweighs the misses. Not to mention it gives you a better chance of proccing WF, which is so much of your DPS.
I have a question here...And before you say anything, I've already read the entire thread, multiple times.
Just today I picked up Gladiator's Pummeler (2.6 speed, 91.2dps), and I need to know if I should replace my MH or OH with it. My current MH is Reflex Blades (2.7 speed, 71.7dps) and my OH is Stormreaver Warblades (1.6 speed, 71.6dps). I'm currently using WF on my Mh and FT on my OH. Should I use Gladiator's Pummeler as my OH and do WF/WF or use Gladiator's Pummeler as my MH and do WF/FT? Does the benefit of an epic on the MH with an OH with FT outweigh the effect of WF/WF with the epic in the OH?
I'm looking for the 2 weapons that will give me the most DPS, and (if you can figure it out) the best weapon combo for PvP.
This is my shaman's armory:
Here's a sample of my EP values:
Crit rating - 0.99
Strength - 2
Agility - 0.88
That was only after one test at 10,000 hours, so it may not be incredibly accurate, but it's interesting, I think.
Well that also answers to my question, seems that my values from Yo's sim are right. Just start need to work AP heavily next.
I've already read the entire thread, multiple times.
Just today I picked up Gladiator's Pummeler (2.6 speed, 91.2dps), and I need to know if I should replace my MH or OH with it. My current MH is Reflex Blades (2.7 speed, 71.7dps) and my OH is Stormreaver Warblades (1.6 speed, 71.6dps).
Come on, are you serious? You're going to claim to have read this entire thread multiple times, and yet you don't know which of a 2.7 or a 1.6 speed weapon you should replace with a 2.6 91 DPS weapon? Really?
I remember reading in the post a section that the MH gets more EP from the dps of a weapon than the OH. So, that would mean putting the epic in the MH more value than to put it in the OH slot. Then, I thought, WF/WF always does better than WF/FT. Maybe I got confused with the conditions that the MH gets more EP...?
Anyone care to clean this up for me? I clearly seem to be confused with something.
I remember reading in the post a section that the MH gets more EP from the dps of a weapon than the OH. So, that would mean putting the epic in the MH more value than to put it in the OH slot. Then, I thought, WF/WF always does better than WF/FT. Maybe I got confused with the conditions that the MH gets more EP...?
Anyone care to clean this up for me? I clearly seem to be confused with something.
Put the Pummeler in your MH and get a green 2.6 speed offhand. Your fist offhand is worthless, and offhanding the Pummeler in favor of keeping the fist MH is a gigantic waste.
WF/WF is obviously going to out dps WF/FT. Yet FT became more viable in 2.3. The question is, how viable? How close does WF/FT come to the dps WF/WF puts out? Does anyone have the math on that?
I remember reading in the post a section that the MH gets more EP from the dps of a weapon than the OH. So, that would mean putting the epic in the MH more value than to put it in the OH slot. Then, I thought, WF/WF always does better than WF/FT. Maybe I got confused with the conditions that the MH gets more EP...?
Anyone care to clean this up for me? I clearly seem to be confused with something.
Sim it out with Yo's. You're probably going to find that the best option is to do what Scheme says, MH the Gladiator's and OH a 2.6 speed ~60 DPS green. There's really not math to determine WF/WF vs WF/FT for multiple combinations of weapons, since each weapon enchant scales with gear differently.
12/27/07, 10:16 PM
Similar Threads
