I'm trying to find the maths proving WF > GoA. Didn't the first post have the links at one point. It looks like Malan has cleaned it up and improved the formatting. At the same time the maths has gone. I'm trying to prove that we need WF in the melee group but without the maths all I have is argumentum ad verecundiam.
Yo's sim is designed for level 70 in mind, and is hence converting the rating as if it was a level 70. You will have to do CritAEPx22.08 divided by however much rating gets you a percent critical strike at your level. Same can be applied to the hit and haste rating. I am also not sure how much agility differs in providing critical strike for lower levels.
Just a random question here, does it make sense theoreticly that at a certain point of gear, crit rating will be worth more then strength?
Maybe if you had managed to gear yourself entirely in +Strength gear with absolutely no crit of any sort. Not sure if it would actually be worth *more* but it might approach the value. Strength will never be worth less than 2 since its 2 AP and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any sort of actual in-game gear that could make any stat worth more than that.
Not sure if this was covered somewhere in the threat, but its not in the OP afaik.
For enhance shamans that are enchanters aswell:
+2 weapon damage, or +4 stats for rings.
From what I understand, the +2 increases in value as attack speed increases through flurry/drums/heroism/DST. Is this the case with +4 stats aswell? Stats feels more well rounded and "hybrid" like, but for raw dps in PVE, I'm just not entirely decided.
+2 damage to both weapons.(no oh penalty)
So AEP value for 2.6 speed weapons
2 *(2 / 2.6) = 1.538wDps
Using 8.48 ep per wDps +2dam = 13.05ep
But mental quickness inflate wDps ep by 0.85multiplier so its only 11.09ep.
Stats is superior.
16.8ep + 4* stamina, int & spi.
All stats scales when "attack speed increases through flurry/drums/heroism/DST." not just +2dmg.
If you're leveling a new shaman you need to avoid Dual Wielding for as long as possible, there's just not enough Hit Rating available until the mid to late 50s and you'll be very hard pressed to find slow enough weapons. Stick with slow 2H weapons until you're almost to Outland.
I don't agree with that at all. I leveled an Enhancement Shaman a few months ago, and switched to dw just as soon as I could. I eyeball recap often while leveling, and noticed a significant jump in dps after switching, as well as higher flurry uptime.
Weapon availability is a potential issue, I used wowhead filters (this one is from lvl 40 to 50) and then scanned the AH for this stuff off and on. When I hit 42 I had two [Skullcrusher Mace] sitting in my mailbox, one of them had a bullshit enchant (of the Whale or something) but the weapon speed and dps was more important. [Corpse Harvester] at 50. Picked up a [Ripsaw] at some point in time, after the 2.3 revamp there's the excellent [Spirit of the Faerie Dragon] from a fairly trivial Feralas quest chain if you don't want to instance.
I don't agree with that at all. I leveled an Enhancement Shaman a few months ago, and switched to dw just as soon as I could. I eyeball recap often while leveling, and noticed a significant jump in dps after switching, as well as higher flurry uptime.
this is exactly the same thing I experienced, I switched to the highest dps weapons i could find and went DW or nothing and things were so much better past that point.
For weapons, the AH always served me well in that regard.
Maybe if you had managed to gear yourself entirely in +Strength gear with absolutely no crit of any sort. Not sure if it would actually be worth *more* but it might approach the value. Strength will never be worth less than 2 since its 2 AP and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any sort of actual in-game gear that could make any stat worth more than that.
Well, i did socket nearly all my gear with +8 str gems, currently 1650 AP and 29% crit, and Yo's sim is showing that crit rating is worth more for me then Str, i tested with 1000 hours and 10000 hours.
Weights -- Not directly addressed in the original post
I have noticed a few things about the shaman that I have yet to actually Read in any forums...
I've noticed that for every 100 AP, I recieve ~33.333 Bonus Spell DMG, regardless of if the AP bonus is from STR or raw AP. In addition, I have noticed that Critical Strike Rating (NOT Agility) yields a slight addition to Spell Critical Strike (Something like a 20% Yield. For every 1% Melee crit achieved from Crit Rating grants ~.2% Spell Crit).
Also -- Considering the vast improvements in 2.3 to Mana Efficiency, Shocks are a notably larger contributor to DPS than before, assuming the Focused State & Water Shield will have a ~90% Uptime.
Well, i did socket nearly all my gear with +8 str gems, currently 1650 AP and 29% crit, and Yo's sim is showing that crit rating is worth more for me then Str, i tested with 1000 hours and 10000 hours.
Well that is completely incorrect in that case. I would suggest that you double check what values you put in and screenshot it for Yo if it does it again.
Originally Posted by Diabolos
I have noticed a few things about the shaman that I have yet to actually Read in any forums...
I've noticed that for every 100 AP, I recieve ~33.333 Bonus Spell DMG, regardless of if the AP bonus is from STR or raw AP. In addition, I have noticed that Critical Strike Rating (NOT Agility) yields a slight addition to Spell Critical Strike (Something like a 20% Yield. For every 1% Melee crit achieved from Crit Rating grants ~.2% Spell Crit).
Also -- Considering the vast improvements in 2.3 to Mana Efficiency, Shocks are a notably larger contributor to DPS than before, assuming the Focused State & Water Shield will have a ~90% Uptime.
Point 1 - well duh. Strength provides 2 AP. You have the mental quickness talent that gives 30% of your AP to spell damage. So no kidding, you've never seen that mentioned because its obvious.
Point 2 - No. Absolutely no. If you're going to make a ludicrous statement like that you'd *damn well* better have some combat logs or screenshots of the char screen to back it up, and it would still be a bug. Melee Critical Strike Rating is not intended to provide spell crit.
Point 3 - Its been rehashed ad nauseam in this thread you aren't telling us anything we aren't aware of.
What is the Flurry uptime % from those sim runs, Strygwyr?
This is a total guess, and honestly I'm on vacation so I don't want to look up anything, but my guess is that you are going to see value on crit drop to a more normal value as soon as you get a bit over 30% crit. I think that the reason why crit may be showing up higher than strength is because the haste gained from attaining near 100% flurry uptime is going to increase your white dps significantly, due to the high AP you are packing. The other part of this valuing is Unleashed Rage uptime, as well, I think.
Just my shot in the dark. If I'm wrong, someone else can correct me
Edit:
In addition, I have noticed that Critical Strike Rating (NOT Agility) yields a slight addition to Spell Critical Strike (Something like a 20% Yield. For every 1% Melee crit achieved from Crit Rating grants ~.2% Spell Crit).
I haven't noticed this but I also haven't looked. Has anyone else seen this? (Vacation also means WoW vacation, or I'd test it myself.)
Last edited by Ilmatar : 12/30/07 at 1:57 PM.
Reason: Added question about m.c.r.->s.c.r.
It shows my FLurry uptime to be 78%, probably because my MH speed and my OH speed dont match, i hve a 2.7 MH and 2.6 OH. Black planar Edge and Glads Cleaver, i also have a decapitator i could wield if it would increase my DPS.
It shows my FLurry uptime to be 78%, probably because my MH speed and my OH speed dont match, i hve a 2.7 MH and 2.6 OH. Black planar Edge and Glads Cleaver, i also have a decapitator i could wield if it would increase my DPS.
Okay that's a reasonable flurry uptime, I think it's probably a result of the UR uptime, then; or bad input/bug.
Someone a few posts above mine said crit rating was affecting his dps more than strength. Some other person then replied that this isn't possible.
I would like to add, that theoretical it is possible, since AP (or Str) adds dmg linear, while Crit multiplies the dps you have.
Asuming you have a 100dps weapon, 4200 AP and 10% crit (I know: very strange values, but I wanna make a pont here; furthermore I ignore hit here for a sec).
then you have 400dps and 10% crit, which leads to 345dps.
Player A adds 22,1str, Player B adds 22,1 critrating.
As you see, adding crit improved the dps more than adding more AP.
The values for AP might seem high, but thats just to prove the point, and I'm too lazy to calculate flurry in, which will help crit even more, so that the breaking point, where crit gets better than AP is lower.
No, the person said that the simulator was reporting an EP value of Crit as being higher than Strength (2 or 2.2 with Kings).
Good Sir, I might have a huge misunderstanding here. I thought, the EP value was to compare the impact of stats on dps, in comparison to AP.
If this is true, its there can be no static value for crit rating (I know, old news).
The original poster wanted to know if under certain circumstance it is thinkable, that critrating has a higher impact on his dps, an therefore a higher EP value.
I gave an example.
Ok yah, thought you were referring to the guy a page back that had funny sim results. But yah I said the same thing earlier - for some obscene values of AP vs Crit you could have that happen, but its not like you could ever construct such a gear set from whats available anyways.
Yo's sim is designed for level 70 in mind, and is hence converting the rating as if it was a level 70. You will have to do CritAEPx22.08 divided by however much rating gets you a percent critical strike at your level. Same can be applied to the hit and haste rating. I am also not sure how much agility differs in providing critical strike for lower levels.
Thanks for pointing this out. For anyone else that wants to use Yo's sim prior to level 70, you need to correct crit strike/haste/hit/expertise as Vareyn describes above. The formula's for determining this are all available at: Combat rating system - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft under the "Combat Ratings formula" heading. Yes, this is probably obvious to most folks, but I had to go find it so hoping it helps someone else.
One value I didn't know how to correct for was Boss Armor. Obviously, 4400 is going to be too high... is there a formula or even a way to ballpark the values?
In addition, I have noticed that Critical Strike Rating (NOT Agility) yields a slight addition to Spell Critical Strike (Something like a 20% Yield. For every 1% Melee crit achieved from Crit Rating grants ~.2% Spell Crit).
Could it be that when you switched an item that had crit rating on it, that you gained int as well? Because int does add to spell crit rating...
Why do so many talent builds choose 2 pts in Anticipation over 2 pts in Guardian Totems. Is there something I'm not getting?
If you plan to PvP you can just as well pick up grounding totem, most of us just pick up Anticipation as a "chance in hell" survivability type of thing, it earns its mileage while you're doing solo content and you get your dodges of crazy cleaves and whirlwind effects in the raid. Its really just 2 points that have nowhere really spectacular to go into.
12/29/07, 11:44 PM
It has WF mechanics explained better then most of us could anyway.
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