Yes all it proved is that he could have much higher dps if he maintained a proper slam cycle

edit waaaaay off topic, preaching to the converted etc

Seems thread broke 1 mil views :P

Anyways, concerning last few posts -- its a very short fight and all cooldowns used so if fight went 3 times as long his dps would take clear dive. 2 min fights are never good to compare regardless if it is shaman, warrior or any other class. Bloodlust is 10 min cooldown, Recklessness is 30 min cooldown and so on, so it can leave very skewed look from dps point of view.

Really? I never tested it or anything, everyone just started bitching and I took their word for it. Think Ill grab one of these whiny locks and drag him out to blasted lands.

But this maths was removed from the main post. A link should be put back, then telling people to go read the main post would be reasonable. At present the main post just has the answer with no backup, no wonder people want to question it.

This reminds me of the old mentality that so much hurted the hybrid classes in the past. I pick leather as the first one if it means a bigger upgrade to me than to anyone else. AC does NOT matter in PvE as far as melee DPS is concerned, so items should be distributed according to it's stat budged solely.

Plus, as someone has commented previously, getting stam/armor makes no difference at all. If some fight requires stamina you equip your PvP gear to reach safe limits, as you do with SR and so on and so on. At most, you get hybrid stamina gems when socket bonus makes up for it without causing much of a loss.

Getting int/mp5 is just ridiculous, you didn't need mp5 before previous patch neither you do now that shocks cost more than a half less. Basically, mana has never been an issue for enhancement and you better go with extra AP to do more damage / regain more mana. That statement shows how clueless you are on enhancement shaman mechanics. There's an excellent first page where Malan trys to keep stuff up to date for a reason. Please, read it.

At this point there's no need to keep on commenting your post. We can continue this discussion as soon as you get a clue on enhancement mechanics.

Don't know, use uses a white attack/slam/instant attack/white attack/slam/instant attack cycle pretty much whole fight. I vaguely remember him saying something about if his whites don't crit he doesn't do the instant attack cause of rage but he stacks crit upto 40%+ in raids.

In his damage breakdown he usually has about 30% of total damage as slams and only 5% of dmg as WFs, rest is white/MS/whirlwinds.

This is comparable to our other MS warrior who rarely uses slam, his WF damage is about 15% or so of total damage but his overall damage is usually much less than the other using slam.

Theres also some fights, Illidari council/Illidan for example where we rotate out melee for ranged for obvious reasons, so often get a group like rogue/rogue/hunter/hunter/myself, the rogues happily use double poisons + GoA cause they know its better for hunters on those occasions. Alot of the omgomgomgomg WF/GoA comes from selfishness of players, I just adopt the "if more people get benefit from X than Y then drop X" and have never had any compliants.

I could be wrong, and apologize if I am. But I believe it's generally agreed upon that the term "DPS Warrior", POST WF nerf, means a dual-wielding fury warrior. For them, with such a huge number of white damage attacks, the WF totem enchant is positively amazing.

If that WWS Parse is from Pre-WF-nerf then the DPS output will be on a level that all but the absolute best geared warriors cannot compare with. Pre-nerf the MS warrior was absolutely devastating. So while most MS warriors that raid, use a Slam cycle between white attacks. Generally the equation for WF totem is designed in reference to modern Fury warriors, and past MS warriors.

Have you considered the stat increase on both weapons for your sim? I tested it on my gear too (almost every slot bt/hyjal gear) which resulted in a dps increase for about 40-50dps. if you haven't entered the new stats of the s3 gear your result would make sense to me.

If you trade your dual syphons for s3 weapons you gain the following stats:
-> -32 attack power ( 2x34ap vs. 2x 50ap)
-> +16 hit rating (2x 8 hit rating vs. 0 hit rating)
-> +42 crit rating (2x 21 crit rating vs. 0 crit rating)
-> +98 armor penetration (2x 49 armor penetration vs. 0 armor penetration)

based on the ep values for high end gear listed in malan's posting only the stat gain is worth about 102 ep (weapon speed and dps unconsidered).

i don't really know, how to weight the weapon proc of the syphons but i doubt they would make a big difference.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the warrior slam rotation discussion would best fit here - http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t12386-w...e_dps_warrior/
and not here - Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I

Tradewind, don't start. I was trying to codify the opinions that OTHER SHAMANS have, in the past, posted in this thread and attribute them to some body of belief about how to play a character (so we could avoid fighting over them in the future). I don't hold those views myself, which if you'd check my armory you'd understand. 80% leather, 7500 health, 5000 mana and very nice DPS stats.

You are right. Checking back my input values I added only 8 hit rating, 21 crit rating and 49 armor penetration, but subtracted only 16 attack power. Anyway the difference shouldn't be relevant. I'll make an other simulation with correct values later today.

The proc of the double syphons are around 2500 damage in a 3 minute encounter (~14 DPS).

It seems that they were arguing more wether WF is still better then goa if the war is slamming and not getting as many white attacks. Regardless, wf is still better even if the war is slamming. And just for an answer on why Serida dosent slam.. Slam is a loss of dps giving a decent amount of haste and a 3.5 wep (I.E. Cataclysms edge) Serida's Explination

Hi thanks for the posts regarding WF totem a few pages back.

I was wondering if there was anywhere i can find the actual numbers for wf vs goa. I tried the search engine but all the results just basically said. WF if a warrior is in group etc. Which sadly is not enough to persuade the GoA lovers.

thanks.

You can find some of the breakdown here - http://elitistjerks.com/f40/t15079-w..._totem_change/
Not sure if non-benefactors can access it right now, that's in the archives which are currently not visible to the public for some reason. Results in that thread though showed that warriors still benefit far far more from WF than from GoA. Rogues that are combat sword still get more from WF than GoA, daggers its neck and neck with WF in a slight lead.

This thread PTR 2.3 (not here yet) testing issues / signup was supposed to test this stuff but I don't recall whatever came of it.

Any chance you could PM./ post here the maths? pretty please ?

Well in the case of Rogues, Vulajin, who maintains the rogue spreadsheets, did some napkin math at the time and showed that WF totem should provide around 85 dps (+ extra energy procs that he didn't model the feedback for) compared to GoA adding around 41 dps. (note that this was all done immediately after the change to WF totem to only proc from white attacks)

I wish I was patient enough to wait for better Arena Gear, but part of me wants to pull up a chair and just farm honor and marks and buy the season 1 arena gear and Vindicator gear + rings and cloak. I got on paper all the honor costs and marks I will need for every slot. Then I realised I wasn't lookin at the "Merciless" cleaver as stated in the first post but a regular one and my plan took a crap on me. Now I cant decide if the Arena will work fast enough for me to replace my Fist of Reckoning X2 before I just buy the weaker 90 DPS Cleaver.... btw sorry if im asking and posting in the wrong thread.

Is it just my weird AEP numbers or aren't Softstep the best boots of them all? at least 20 AEP ahead of Shadowmaster's in my case. Would be nice to know what they look like for other peoples values.

I rate Shadowmaster's as 4.6 AEP higher than Softstep. Not a huge difference, but better.

Tiny little bit better for me too. :P

I have been reading this thread for several months now. It is hands down, the best reference for Enhancement Shaman and thank you for putting this together.

Several posts have come close but have not actually answered a question I have. (If they are, please send me back in to find it, I would rather just find it 1st than waste everyone's time by repeating already answered questions.)

I have just hit 70 last week and I'm grinding EOTS for my off hand. I have already created my main hander, the Drakefist Hammer. As you know this is a 2.7 speed weapon. From what I have read, the goal would be to have 2 slow weapons but also of the same speed. Right now, I have this. I am off handing The Fist of reckoning. but this is a level 88 weapon and is very out dated. My options for an off hander at level 115 or better with a 2.7 or slower speed are out of the question for me at this point. It will have to be 2.6. This means that I will be using an offhanded that is faster than my main hander. Has anyone done any graphing that reflects some sort of DPS loss as the offhand weapon speed decreases relative to the main hand's?

No they don't need to be the same speed, just as slow as possible in each hand.