Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 241

Illundai · 01/03/08, 4:04 PM

The reasoning for the same speed was that Flurry bugged out and gave 2 hasted hits from one charge or something along those lines? I never really got that part :P.

Paradox · 01/03/08, 4:11 PM

Originally Posted by Illundai

Tiny little bit better for me too. :P

What are your AEP values? I'd like to test and see if my Enhancer isn't bugging or something.

Unaz · 01/03/08, 4:12 PM

I believe it was due to flurry hasting your "next swing", but if both weapons swung at the same time, it wouldn't choose one over the other, so hasted both. Once you get a high enough crit to get near perma-flurry, it stops mattering though.

diemos80 · 01/03/08, 4:45 PM

Sorry if this has been asked 1294801 times before, but is there a spreadsheet or other data file that rates gear by slot ala Binkenstein's Elemental Shaman ShamStats excel? Thanks!

Aspartem · 01/03/08, 4:46 PM

Well, its me again.. The Enhancer is still bugging around for God sake..
Everytime i try to copy+paste the String into the Addon the following Message appears: "Some AEP values was not included, please check the following AEP Values (Stamina, Resilience, WeaponExpertise, OhDps, MhDps).

I use this String: AP:100;CR:206;STR:200;AGI:182;HR:181;HsR:169;IA:031;ExP:335;
and this Command: /enhancer EpNumbers Crazyshamanimport (Copypasted String)
Hell.. Its the third week now, and the Addon still doesnt work correctly.. just cant find the mistake. Please, please help me, else i get totally crazy.

Greetings
Aspartem

Binkenstein · 01/03/08, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by diemos80

Sorry if this has been asked 1294801 times before, but is there a spreadsheet or other data file that rates gear by slot ala Binkenstein's Elemental Shaman ShamStats excel? Thanks!

Due to the complexity that is WF mechanics, any item ranking system like mine would be extremely hard to design.

Toots Hepcat · 01/03/08, 5:03 PM

The "two weapons of the same speed" hypotheses was based on a combination the observation that Flurry "occasionally" would affect 4 swings instead of 3 and the belief that having two weapons of the same speed would increase the number of mainhand windfury procs.

A lot of thought went into exploring these concepts, but to my mind the proposed benefit of having same-speed weapons was never proven to exceed the benefit of having a slower weapon in the first place.

I myself use Dragonmaw and a S1 axe; it's a great combo, especially considering how cheap it was. Stop resisting! There is NO better way to improve your overall DPS than improving your weapons.

Nacht · 01/03/08, 5:11 PM

It wouldn't have to be as stand alone as your spreadsheet, Bink. No need to actively recalculate EP values based on current gear. We could still use Yo!'s sim to calculate our values. Just have a list, like yours, of our currently equipped gear on the first tab. But instead of referencing the EP of your gear to calculate stat weights, one could just manually plug in their EP values on one tab. Then, like yours, have a tab for each gear slot which calculates the EP for all possible gear that's been compiled into the spreadsheet. It would be fairly simple, as it would simply be a compilation of all available enhance gear in a nicely presented spreadsheet, similar to yours. One of the beauties of your spreadsheet is that it presents a very nice format for gear comparison and upgrade selection.

I have, in fact, taken your sheet and adjusted the % columns to be a percentage of total DEP/HEP from all of my gear instead of just the specific slot in order to determine if I should spend honor on ring or neck, badges on belt or trinket, by comparing how it would improve my overall DEP/HEP. The same can be done for an enhancement spreadsheet with EP.

Hmmm, now if only I had the time, I'd actually just do it myself.

Toots Hepcat · 01/03/08, 5:22 PM

Originally Posted by diemos80

Sorry if this has been asked 1294801 times before, but is there a spreadsheet or other data file that rates gear by slot ala Binkenstein's Elemental Shaman ShamStats excel? Thanks!

No spreadsheets, but you have do have resources.

First, if you use Yo's Simulator to compute your personal AEP, it will output a URL you can plug into Thottbot to get your customized item score (make sure you hit the SAVE button to apply it). You can then search for weapons and armor using this score as a parameter, or drool over the top 50.

Second, you can use MaxDPS.com, which is less accurate but much easier to use. This accuracy can be an issue, for example because it does not allow me to enter all of my passive haste procs, it weighs haste rating much heavier than Yo's does. Its weapon scores are also WAY off, it'll suggest <2.2s speed weapons that no theorycraft aware shaman should use except in very extreme circumstances.

After every couple of upgrades, you should revisit your site of choice and reevaluate your stat weights. A little of some stats (like hit rating or haste rating) can got a long way to changing the value of your other stats. You should also reevaluate any time your buff makeup changes dramatically (say, you lose a feral druid or only raid with 2 paladins).

diemos80 · 01/03/08, 5:30 PM

Heh yeah I TOTALLY rely on Bink's ShamStats for my elemental shammie, but since good elemental gear is pretty scarce I've been filling my bags with the rot offspec stuff and was hoping there was a similar collection to reference which to loot and which to D/E.

I hear ya Bink that a comprehensive build model would make for an incredibly difficult project. I like Nacht's idea, though, if even for a simple reference workbook. You could also add a 'TIER' modifier that would lookup different EP values based on the values in Post 1 to build in some additional functionality.

I'd be willing to collaborate on this if a few others want to lend a hand and if Bink doesn't mind if his spreadsheet is used as a template. A few ppl each taking a slot or 2 after the conversion would be pretty speedy!

Binkenstein · 01/03/08, 5:54 PM

Originally Posted by Nacht

It wouldn't have to be as stand alone as your spreadsheet, Bink. No need to actively recalculate EP values based on current gear. We could still use Yo!'s sim to calculate our values. Just have a list, like yours, of our currently equipped gear on the first tab. But instead of referencing the EP of your gear to calculate stat weights, one could just manually plug in their EP values on one tab. Then, like yours, have a tab for each gear slot which calculates the EP for all possible gear that's been compiled into the spreadsheet. It would be fairly simple, as it would simply be a compilation of all available enhance gear in a nicely presented spreadsheet, similar to yours. One of the beauties of your spreadsheet is that it presents a very nice format for gear comparison and upgrade selection.

I have, in fact, taken your sheet and adjusted the % columns to be a percentage of total DEP/HEP from all of my gear instead of just the specific slot in order to determine if I should spend honor on ring or neck, badges on belt or trinket, by comparing how it would improve my overall DEP/HEP. The same can be done for and enhancement spreadsheet with EP.

Hmmm, now if only I had the time, I'd actually just do it myself.

Good idea actually, but I would recommend checking out the "upgrade" tab, which compares the current item against 3 other items you specify.

Originally Posted by diemos80

Heh yeah I TOTALLY rely on Bink's ShamStats for my elemental shammie, but since good elemental gear is pretty scarce I've been filling my bags with the rot offspec stuff and was hoping there was a similar collection to reference which to loot and which to D/E.

I hear ya Bink that a comprehensive build model would make for an incredibly difficult project. I like Nacht's idea, though, if even for a simple reference workbook. You could also add a 'TIER' modifier that would lookup different EP values based on the values in Post 1 to build in some additional functionality.

I'd be willing to collaborate on this if a few others want to lend a hand and if Bink doesn't mind if his spreadsheet is used as a template. A few ppl each taking a slot or 2 after the conversion would be pretty speedy!

I am doing some work around set bonuses, but following this suggestion I'm pretty sure I can hack up a decent copy for you guys to use (although filling out the item database will be up to you!).

Time to go play with Yo!'s calculator for a bit.

Malan · 01/03/08, 6:32 PM

Yah but why would you need a spreadsheet for that, you can go to thottbot and do the same thing with their item weight system.

Nacht · 01/03/08, 6:42 PM

I don't feel I have the kind of control over Thottbot, or any other website for that matter, that I'd like to have. The filters always fail to meet my needs. I prefer the presentation style of having it in a spreadsheet all together in which I can quickly go from comparing helms to shoulders, etc. And I can take a spreadsheet and tailor it to my specific needs. But that's just me.

Toots Hepcat · 01/03/08, 6:53 PM

Hey, if somebody wants to make a spreadsheet of all the leather & mail DPS items in the game broken down by slot along with their agility, strength, hit rating, haste rating, crit rating, attack power, armor penetration, expertise, DPS, one/main/off handability, weapon speed, gem slots and equivalences for on-use and on-equip procs, they're welcome to do so.

I'd rather use Thottbot/MaxDPS, and spend those 100 hours doing something useful.

Pyre · 01/03/08, 6:57 PM

I prefer Lootzor myself, but yeah, that's a hundred hours I can do better things.

Toots Hepcat · 01/03/08, 6:59 PM

Has Lootzor been updated recently? Last time I was there it didn't have any of the badge or ZA gear, and that's what I'm concentrating on these days.

Pyre · 01/03/08, 7:03 PM

Possibly not. My guild isn't that far along, though, and the layout's much better IMHO. I stand corrected.

ChaguraED · 01/03/08, 7:22 PM

Originally Posted by diemos80

Sorry if this has been asked 1294801 times before, but is there a spreadsheet or other data file that rates gear by slot ala Binkenstein's Elemental Shaman ShamStats excel? Thanks!

Aren't the Spreadsheets at bemory23 Profile, bemory23 Details - FileFront.com what we're looking for?
It's all done by EP values that you can adjust for your specific stats.

The are from a poster on this thread, about 50 pages back

Binkenstein · 01/03/08, 7:33 PM

Well, that makes that easy.

If someone wants to butcher my spreadsheet to include that, feel free (just include me in the credits or something), but I've found a few things I need to fix in the Ele/Resto version now.

Shabadu · 01/03/08, 7:40 PM

Originally Posted by paulg002

Has anyone done any graphing that reflects some sort of DPS loss as the offhand weapon speed decreases relative to the main hand's?

Pretty sure any higher listed DPS(+any stats) weapon within .2 speed of your MH will be better than a lvl 62 weapon. It's a matter of choosing your available offhands and testing/simulating to see which performs the best.

Nemaa · 01/03/08, 8:34 PM

Here is the result of two simulation with Yo's using my stats. The left one is 2xSyphon, the right one is 2xVengeful weapon. Vengeful weapons beat Syphons with 20 DPS.

Dindi · 01/03/08, 9:14 PM

Malan, would it be possible for you to place a new section pointing out when new updated information in your post is made? Perhaps just highlighting particular sections in your contents with a new colour to indicate a change in that particular section such as a blue for changes made in the last week and green for changes made in the last month?

While I completely re-read your post every few weeks or so, to make sure I see all new content you place in it, I find that I come into this particular forum to read the new post more then anything else. Its pretty easy to see that the new graph for weapon speed is a new addition, but the last paragraph in the haste section could easily be missed on a quick look over. If I could see something saying "Hey this particular part of Malan's original post has now changed and you should read it as its pretty important" it would be great.

Paradox · 01/03/08, 9:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dindi

Malan, would it be possible for you to place a new section pointing out when new updated information in your post is made? Perhaps just highlighting particular sections in your contents with a new colour to indicate a change in that particular section such as a blue for changes made in the last week and green for changes made in the last month?

While I completely re-read your post every few weeks or so, to make sure I see all new content you place in it, I find that I come into this particular forum to read the new post more then anything else. Its pretty easy to see that the new graph for weapon speed is a new addition, but the last paragraph in the haste section could easily be missed on a quick look over. If I could see something saying "Hey this particular part of Malan's original post has now changed and you should read it as its pretty important" it would be great.

I've been meaning to comment on this too, highlighting which topics have been updated would be great.

• Embar · 01/03/08, 9:54 PM

Originally Posted by Aspartem

Well, its me again.. The Enhancer is still bugging around for God sake..
Everytime i try to copy+paste the String into the Addon the following Message appears: "Some AEP values was not included, please check the following AEP Values (Stamina, Resilience, WeaponExpertise, OhDps, MhDps).

I regularly see that message myself. If you check your AEP values manually you should find that they were still input and should be working. The error message only means that the original string did not touch on values such as Stamina and Resilience.

By the way - don't sign your posts, we can see your profile.

Malan · 01/03/08, 10:16 PM

Yah I'm just lazy. I'll try to do that, I added a section at the bottom for it.