DarthCliche

It was a strange group make-up for sure and ended up only lasting for one boss before more melee came in, so I hadn't ever had the situation come up before. I just wanted to make sure I'd exhausted every option for determining that the course of action I took was indeed the correct one. My thanks for the quick response.

I don't intend to bother with totem twisting, but I think I'll research it just for personal edification.

 

Mengus

I'm faced with a similar dillema regarding our plethora of hunters.

Unfortunately, they all whine that they want to milk the benefits of the ENH Shaman (AP and AGI), but as mentioned in previous posts, MELEE is the group than ENH Shaman buff up the best.

It's hard to find a spot for a hunter in the Melee Group, as you're ideally running with:
Enh Shaman
Combat Rogue/Ret Pally?
Combat Rogue
Fury Warrior
Feral Druid

We'll often toss a Resto Shaman in that group if there's no ENH available, and rarely would we raid with 2 ENH Shaman, unless it's on farm bosses..

For an Ele/Enh specced additional ENH Shaman, maybe the ideal group would be:

Ele/Enh Shaman
Feral Druid
Hunter Surv
Hunter BM
Shadow Priest
*I think a mutilate rogue might do well there, but Shadow Priest should have at least 3 mana users imo.

Any thoughts on this rare, but possibly interesting possibilty where GoA would be ideal

 

Bargle

Hunters get very little benefit from being grouped with an enhancement shaman compared to any melee class. Unleashed Rage does NOT give ranged AP, so the only benefits they're getting is mana spring, agility (assuming GoA totem--meaning 1 or less rogue/warrior/retadin in the group), and some strenf for their pet. Hunters should never replace melee in an enhancement shaman's group, they should only be filler.

 

• Daler

Is this a joke? There's nothing about that group that's even remotely ideal.

Whether a shaman is restoration sub-spec or elemental sub-spec doesn't change their group synergy capabilities one bit. Stick with the full melee group.

 

Mengus

This was postulating that you had a 2nd ENH Shaman, and conceivably the Melee grp is already ideal, but you now have a 'ghetto' grp that you don't know how to outfit. Hunters always seem to get the short end of the stick, and they can really put out some dps with a shadowpriest...

 

• Daler

If you're serious, then sticking the elem/enh shaman in with hunters that, more likely than not, are going to outrange his 20 yard totems for the majority of the fight would be a bad idea anyways.

 

Rapparee

Mengus:
the best filler group if you have two enhancement shaman.... is to stick the crappier enhance in the main tank group.
He's only responsible for keeping windfury (agi if you have a bear MT), str and UR up on the tanks.

That gives everyone else in the raid a larger threat gap. I may be missing something here, but any 10man and up, the 2nd enhance shaman best serves the raid by buffing the tanks.

 

Bragor

Very bad group syngraty (Sp ?) there. Best shaman to put with hunters is always a resto shaman. They benefit more from his mana tide then our str totem + unleashed rage give to his pet plus he's gonna be dropping agility totem for them.

Best group for Enhancement shaman to be utilized to his fullest potential is:

1x Fury Warrior.
2x Combat Rogues.
1x Enh. Shaman.
1x Hybrid Buffer (Feral Druid/Retri Pala/Another Warrior).

And Yes my current guild runs with a standard Retri paladin & we find them invaluable in healing/Mana intensive fights.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63182wOceL.png

You never know, If you never try.

 

Sebudai

First of all, hunters don't need a shadow priest to do great damage. Second of all, how ironic that these questions are popping up just a day after I was complaining about them in the EJBB.

Rogue/Rogue/Hunter/Hunter/Shaman is a retarded group. And personally, I'm not interested in theorycrafting the exact math for it. Do it yourself. I don't even have to theorycraft for that group though, because the answer is obvious. One of those hunters is Survival, drop GoA. Duh. Or you could just totem twist. There are a hundred different retarded group compositions we could theorycraft for, but they're retarded, so we don't. Are we really going to get questions like these every time some guild has wonky attendance and has to build a weird group?

Non-retarded group compositions:

Rogue/Feral Druid/Retribution Paladin
Rogue
Rogue
Arms/Fury Warrior
Enhancement Shaman

BM Hunter
BM Hunter
Survival Hunter
Feral Druid
Restoration Shaman

If you have a 2nd Enhancement shaman, put him in the MT group unless you don't have a restoration shaman for the hunter group.

 

Tristan

This:
Should work, not sure how it's affected by having the attack start before the cast sequence but I guess you'll have to test it with and without.

Enhancer -Ace2- (Totem Timers, configurable AEP, Enhancement Itemization Points, GemPicker and more)
RaidSpy -Ace2- (Prints out the checks done by raid officers in chatframe)

 

Zula

Hello. I always read this thread when i have a doubt, and usually solves it.

Now according to some other sites (maxdps) the best pieces for enha shaman, (i'm trying ssc and tk with my guild) are in leather, it's this probably true?

 

Myul

The difference between wearing full T6 to best (leather) pieces around is a difference of around 30 attack power and 3% crit (rounded).

Have a look by yourself and check > this profile <.

Putting the values in Yo's Sim (battleshout instead of lotp, 19 shocks pm), T6 is around 1475 dps and the "best" gear avaible around 1550 dps, a possible gain of 5%.

If i would have to make the choice again between letting all rogues/ferals hating me for bidding on leather and simply pick up 5 tokens i would chose the tokens these days.
Stamina heavy, a lot of int to backup unlucky shamanistic rage usage and the droprate is fixed. Compare it to all the mail and leather random drops, i was very lucky to pick up my gear in a small time window.

 

Zula

Deleted

 

Myul

Well, that's easy. Put your stats into Yo's Sim and get your AEP. Then do the maths.

[Master Assassin Wristwraps] with a 4 str/4 crit gem:
50 ap
04 str
24 crit
17 agi

[Vindicator's Linked Bracers] with a 8 str gem:
33 str
21 crit

Crit is slighty less worthy then ap point per point. But the badges ones will net you much more crit.

Don't try to compare %, simply compare the aep.

For simply compare, use ap = 1, crit = 2, agi = 1.8 and str = 2.2.

50 ap * 1 = 50
04 str * 2.2 = 8.8
24 crit * 2 = 48
17 agi * 1.8 = 30.6
137.6 together.

33 str * 2.2 = 72.6
21 crit * 2 = 42
114.6 together

Difference of 23 or over 16%.

Hint: It's [ ITEM]ITEMNAME[ /ITEM].

 

Blazingwater

Say you have only 2 palidins in your raid. Do you take salv and kings or salv and might? I know might gives far more AP, but does the increased agil make up for the lost AP? I guess it really depends on your gear, but it would help me if you could answer this.

 

Myul

Blessing of Might is 220 ap untalentated, 264 with talents.

your strength / 10 * 2.2 + your agility / 10 * 2.

With SoE, Roosted Clefthoof, MotW and your base statpoints you can break 600 strength and maybe 300 agility.

That's only less then 200 aep. If you don't need the +stamina and don't want a slighty bigger manapool, go for blessing of might.

 

Zula

according to Yo's simulator the ep value is different from the one Kenji provides in first post,
Yo's gives:
AP: 1
Crit: 1.29
Hit rating: 1,48
haste rating: 1.34
Armor Penetration: 0.23
strenght: 2.2
Agility:1.25
Expertise:2.71

So isn't Yo's no more good? in Yo's Hit>haste>Crit in this:Haste>Crit>hit

 

Malan

As a guess, you didn't input buffs correctly or run the sim nearly long enough, not to mention that those numbers are an average of 7 10k hour sim runs.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Zula

Ok i use lootrank with the number you Provide, feel good

 

Tambard

Recently, I have just stopped evaluating hit on items to find the best in the game, stats-wise. Given this, I've come to find myself at 68 hit. Wednesday night, [Forest Prowler's Helm] replaced my [Skyshatter Cover] (down to 48 hit). Thursday night I was a bit worried, so I used [Spicy Hot Talbuk], and I jumped from being around 7-8 on damage to Top 4 on every fight in Hyjal. Next week, I'm going to use [Roasted Clefthoof] and compare results... I noticed a few pages back that people were discouraging others from dropping below 100 hit, so I just thought I'd throw up a realtime counterpoint to those claims. I was also wondering if anyone else pretty much itemizes via pure stats or if they use the somewhat lofty hit values. Seems to me that the op contradicts itself in valuing hit so high, when it clearly states not to choose hit over stats.

 

Malan

Incorrect, you are misreading things.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

jwwpua

@Yo:

Hey I've been using your simulator and it's really helpful. I was wondering if you would add an option to input target resilience, so that I could see how my stat weights in PvP. It would also help choose Mongoose or Executioner on 1 or both weapons.

On the one hand, 400 resilience will decrease chance to crit by ~10%, making me think it would value crit higher, but on the other hand, it decreases crit damage by ~20%, so I'm not sure how it would weigh out.

Anyways, just wondering, I understand it's for PvE dps but figured I'd ask!



thanks

 

Chutoi

Hey guys--I seem to have missed (if it is written up) what conversion rate may be used to compare EP (for stat weight comparisons) to actual dps. Thus, is a 10 EP upgrade a 1 dps upgrade? I suppose my question relates to how much of an upgrade a 2 EP item might actually be in terms of damage output.

Thanks, and sorry if I just missed it!

Chutoi

 

jwwpua

If you choose the option "Find EP Weights", it will show you on the top right how much 1 EP equals in terms of DPS.

For example, mine shows 1 EP = 0.2333 DPS. So 10 EP = 2.333 DPS for me.

 

Chutoi

Thanks, Jwwpua. Apparently, I'm slower than normal today. I didn't see that!