qualia

For us, the Feral is the one that gets switched out. He benefits the least from BL I think.

 

Sebudai

I always swap out the feral druid for Bloodlust. Or if the group has 3 rogues instead of 2 rogues and a druid I'll swap myself out. I don't like swapping our warrior out because it removes Battle Shout(at least temporarily.) As far as I know Bloodlust is still great for an arms warrior. It affects the cast time of Slam and reduces the global cooldown.

 

Malan

This was proven to be false a few months ago. It does not change the GCD.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Atren

As far as i know it does reduce global cooldown, but normal haste items do not affect it.

 

◊ Wraithlin

No, no, NO!
It has been proven, and it is a simple test, that bloodlust does not change the GCD.

 

Galine

Hey, I've been following the topic pretty close, and was starting to think on how to improve my gear. The only thing I'm hesitant on is giving up my pure str stats for gear with higher AP - since, in raids and almost every group I am in, I have kings and salvation (we have a hell of a lot of paladins). Once I get my Vinidicator's neck with a str/crit gem, I'll be gemming up my T4 shoulders with an additional 8str gem. Also as was mentioned earlier, the T4 str bonus to the totem makes a huge difference with me, and I find that pretty valuable. What are your opinions on this and should I worry that much about the T4 bonus, or just go with the rogue badge rewards (other than the boots as I'm a pretty big fashion whore and they look really dumb on females).

Edit: Spelling... these keyboards at work suck, lol.

Edit 2: Forgot to mention, we're currently stuck at a cleared Kara, and can clear the first chest in ZA, with the 4 avatars down, as well as High King Maulgar... so, that's pretty much where my gear choices generally fall in to place.

 

• Binkenstein

We have a fair amount of evidence showing that it does not affect the GCD.

If you have proof to the contrary, document it and post it, otherwise stop posting claims like that.

 

rava

Really? Admittedly I haven't been keeping up much on the thread but I can recall multiple discussions of the T4 2 piece and it's value within the last week. I'm glad that you found the thread and are trying to improve your character, but please take some time to use the "search this thread" function in the top right hand corner so the same question doesn't get asked for the thousandth time. If anything is unclear after that I'd be happy to help and answer you to the best of my ability.

Full price for gum!? That dog won't hunt, Monsignor.

 

Galine

Edit: Yeah, I did find something, more or less gear suggestions for replacements and values for the set bonus which I wasn't exactly aiming for. The T4 set bonus wasn't really the main factor I was trying to address, more along the lines of the potential gain from kings. Guess I'll have to try the simulator later to see how much potential loss/gain I get from swapping out my other Str gear for AP pieces... too bad the site can't be proxied to at work. Math is really not my friend, at all... heh.

I'll post again if I'm confused, haha... thanks =)

 

Itchen

My alt is an Enhancement Shaman and I am currently working on making him raid worthy on the off chance we end up needing another. I have been following this thread since before I even rolled him. My gear is middle of the road. Some Kara pieces, Ebon Netherscale Breastplate, Swiftstrike Shoulders and several instance blues. I was using Yo's simulator to try obtain my current AEP values. I got some very unexpected results based on what I was expecting from the first post.

• Crit - 1.4
• Hit - 1.19
• Haste - 1.19
• Armor Penetration - 0.19
• Agility 1.24
• Expertise Rating - 2.21

I wanted to find out if these numbers were accurate or if I had entered something wrongly on the simulator. I took paper doll AP, Hit rating converted to % + 9% from talents, Haste % went with the base 4400 Boss armor. I ran the simulation with no buffs besides GoA and SoE. Since the DPS I got was substantially higher then what I see in game and I had the odd AEP values I feel like I must have done something wrong.


I'll include an armory link for reference. I know I can get better DPS by switching some +4 Str +6 Stam gems out, and that I need to get an enchant on my off-hand. Kaltad

 

Wolflord

That makes sense, your AP is still pretty low. The low AEP is really just highly rating AP/str. Generally AP is universally useful and its only the difference between hit/crit/haste that really determines gear choices. You really dont find crit/hit becoming highly rated until over 1600 base AP.

 

Itchen

Thank you for the quick reply. That makes sense. I just thought it was a little odd considering the entry level AEP's given on the front page. Now that I think about it, a lot of the shamans (starting Kara) I've been seeing around have AP equivalent to mine but with much lower crit and hit ratings. So the simulator is basically telling me that crit/Agi is becoming much less valuable as I approach 100% UR uptime and 75% flurried hits.

 

Toots Hepcat

The added value of crit from proc uptimes is less than the value of the dps from more critical strikes. It's not going to
cause a major fall-off in the value of any one stat.

It all comes down to buffs -- most of our simulations include BS and BoM, which together add 667 AP. You, in turn, have added 3.52% crit that most simulations don't factor in. More crit and less AP will devalue crit and value AP, which is exactly what you see.

People tend to ignore buffs when they list their simulation values, and I wish they'd stop it. Buffs change EP values dramatically.

Your stats aren't that strange, and if this shaman is for farming or PUGs you've actually got the right EP numbers in front of you.

 

Tuili

Yeah like we haven't discussed this before...

I use the gladiator 2.60 1h mace (~91dps) as main hand with windfury and until I get another one for my off-hand I'm using a 1.8 ~80dps dagger with flametongue. Now, what if I went for the 1.4 ~91dps dagger instead?

The WF proc is 20% which means that after the 3 sec CD I will get a WF effect every five hits. Here's the thing: with 2.6 speed I will only "waste" one hit during the CD and that will make an average of 6 hits per proc. I've used recount (ace2 addon) and found that my average WF proc is around 1300 dmg (don't laugh^^) Now six hits with flurry = 6x1.82 sec = 10,92 sec average per WF proc which means WF will add 1300/10,92 = 119 dps

My flametongue off-hand adds roughly 80 dps (recount). Total dps buff for my current WF / FT ~ 200dps

If I go for WF / WF instead this will happen: After a proc I will have three hits within the CD (if MH procs it'll be OH, MH, OH)

The WF proc rate when dual wielding is supposedly 36% (according to this thread) which means I will have 3 hits within the CD then an average of three hits before I get another proc. That next proc has a 50% chance of being a MH one. If it's an OH proc it'll be much lower (~700 says my recount when using the mace in OH).

(1300+700) / 2 = 1000 average proc when dual wielding. This will happen every sixth hit (3 hits within CD, three on average for the proc). With flurry that's 6x0,91 = 5,46 sec. Rendering the total WF dps buff 1000/5,46 = 183 dps

Because of the fact that the off-hand eats half of the procs it seems better to just use WF on the MH and always get the 100% WF effect and use FT on a fast OH instead.

Reflections on this? I'm not saying this is correct, but I'd like someone to tell me exactly why WF WF is sooooo much better.

Tuili - Hand of Pod tank
Fawne - Enhancement Shaman

 

Ilmatar

2



Extra



Hits

If you could imbue your johnson with Windfury, it would boost your DPS, even if it stole both MH and OH procs.

 

Dariusx

dont forget about stormstrike - which will have much more benefit if your 2 weapons are slow.
and the better your gear the better wf will scale - ft not.

 

drats

If by 'someone' you mean 'section IV of the original post', then here's the link: Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I

--

Just out of curiosity, does the WF cooldown affect WF totem hits as well? If not, my idea is that someone could make a mod to remove MH WF during the cooldown and drop the totem, then remove the totem buff and reapply WF when the cooldown was over. Just for fun that is, I don't think it would be feasible at all in raids.

 

Ilmatar

Windfury Totem is only 1 extra hit. If it applied to the off hand it might be worthwhile, but it's been tested and it's no good (see 1st post )

 

rava

That isn't what he's saying. He is saying that inside of the 3 second cooldown remove WF from your weapon and drop a WF totem, then reapply WF after the cooldown is up.

Full price for gum!? That dog won't hunt, Monsignor.

 

Toots Hepcat

This is an insane concept that infuriates and intrigues me.

Some things to think about
- you'd have to not be GCD when WF procs.
- you'd have to be within the rare window where you neither have an SS coming, a shock coming or a totem to drop in the next 3s, else you'd be reducing your damage from other areas.
- you'd have to macro the "clicking off" of the totem's buff along the re-application of the standard buff. Assuming it CAN be clicked off; I've never tried.
- you'd have to be able to manage these two actions and their GCDs within the confines of a 3s window.

My cycle is complex enough as is, thanks.

Also, fast daggers suck, mate. Just ask all the fast dagger shamans I've annihilated on the meters. Your math is flawed in a couple ways...for one, 3 hits between WF procs is not the average with dual WF. Your chance of getting WF the first hit outside of the cooldown is 36%, in one of the first two hits is 59%. Thus your "average" hits before proc outside the cooldown is going to be less than 2. For another, single WF has an outside of CD proc chance of 20%. By going WF/FT, you may actually decrease the WF dps from your main hand.

 

Tuili

Ok I'm convinced. I'll just go grind those extra nine thou honor I need for the unfairly expensive off-hand (one hand) mace Thank you for the info!

Tuili - Hand of Pod tank
Fawne - Enhancement Shaman

 

• promdates

It can be clicked off. I've made the mistake of forgetting to reapply the weapon buffs while clearing trash before. Drop my totems and see the phase "Extra Attack!" on SCT. Remove totems, click off buff, apply real buffs, redrop totems.

But as Ilmatar said, the totem is only 1 attack, the weapon buff is 2. More damage = better, that's the whole point of this thread, right? If the totem affected the offhand, it would still be worse than the weapon buff.

"On a scale of one to mein kampf, how many racists does it take to make a guild look terrible?"

[03:28] L_J: it's "olololo hero class"

[01:09:39] <DeeNogger> Any of the resident grammer nazis on right now?

 

Stopokingme

You can also just click off the buff and just recast windfury weapon fast.

 

Kirion

It's easier to use macro with /cancelaura. I don't think you can cast weapon buff fast enough without macro and i don't know if you can cancel wf totem buff.

42.

 

Toots Hepcat

Ilmatar was talking about something different.

Some dang fool suggested canceling windfury and dropping the wf totem every time wf procs...so that during the 3s cooldown, you'd have the totem buff instead which has no cooldown. After you were out of the 3s, you'd cancel the totem aura and recast WF.

If it worked, it would give you 3s of 20% chance for 1 extra MH attack within the 3s WF cooldown. It would also be mana expensive, screw up the twisting cycle and no doubt lag either or both of the SS and shock cycles.

But please somebody try it. I love a good disaster story.