Does Yo's simulator take into account 4 piece T5 bonus?
How much EP is that bonus (5% extra speed on flurry) worth? (in other words, I'm trying to figure out what amount of EP I'd have to get from an item or two items together to make it worth it for me to break up the 4 piece bonus.)

Also, look at my avatar and tell me I'm sacrificing looks for dps. Non-set has the total package, pal!

I finally got to try Teron with Berserker's Call this week, so of course I'm targeted with the first Shadow of Death.

The sim... A perfect situation with no human error, no random factors, no nothing.

Personal experience tells me it doesn't matter much DPS wise. You'll notice a little drop to using Tier 6, but not much. Try it out, the difference is so marginally small. If you want, when we do this Teron speedkilling again, I'll use Tier 6 opposed to non-set items this week. I'm willing to bet you 100 euros that the difference will be smaller than 30 dps.

In the best of all possible worlds, it would be worth what 5% haste is worth from your EP values. Now this assumes that flurry has a 100% uptime, but you can take that and multiply it by your flurry uptime if you have an uptime meter to get the true value for you.

For me I believe the bonus was very nearly worth replacing my current helm, chest, t6 gloves, and my t6 pants and putting back on the t5 gear over that. That set bonus is insane.

There are random factors. The whole sim is designed around pushing random numbers into it and see what happens. One swing, 40% crit, dice(100), 1-40 means a crit. Dice is random. This is theorycrafting.

So you base your theory around one kill? This is 5/10000*60 that of one of the recommended runs of the sim. Of course you will see different results. It's not statistically viable. The def facto standard(Yo!'s sim, the recommended norm in this thread) says you are wrong. If you want to argue otherwise, hand over some numbers. Single WWSes do not count.

Edit:
Wraithlin - yeah, I just inserted something random. No non-meta helm is able to compete anyway.

Sebudai - More pink!

I'm not that dumb. I already said I ran with both gearsets for several lockouts and concluded that the difference is marginally small. It's not that hard to get.

P.S: The sim models a fight where the mob never turns around, never hits you with aoe so you have to slow down DPS, doesn't take into account all the random factors besides combat mechanics. It's a simulation of the perfect model. That's what it does!

P.S.2: I think it's wrong to tell people "OMG TIER 6 IS BAD!" when it obviously isn't all that bad. Yes, some itempoints are wasted on mp5, but the rest of it is fairly well itemized. I lose ~50 AP from using nonset and gain ~1,5% crit. I'd hardly call that a "world of difference". Yes, a difference - but a small one.

[e] What happened to personal choice and flavour? It's not because the sim disagrees with me (and is correct, nonset is a little more dps) that I all of the sudden are terrible for using tier 6. I mean, I don't have to back up any of my claims with numbers, I'm not telling anyone that what I'm saying is the absolute truth. Someone asked me how 4t6 was working out, so I did.

If you don't want to believe the difference in DPS, then check how much actual stats I would gain/lose from changing gear.

Let's see here, I wear 4 pieces of tier 6. Shoulders, Chest, Gloves & Legs. I'll not post what I have socketed everything with, I'll just post the raw stats. (*)

Skyshatter Pauldrons: 54 Strength, 30 AP, 11 Hit, 36 Crit
Skyshatter Tunic: 46 Strength, 52 Crit, 15 Hit
Skyshatter Grips: 44 Strength, 26 Crit, 13 Hit
Skyshatter Pants: 51 Strength, 56 Crit, 21 Hit, 50 AP

Total of: 579 AP (4t6 bonus), 170 Crit (7.70% Crit), 60 Hit.

Shoulders of the Hidden Predator: 38 Agility, 36 Crit, 106 AP
Midnight Tunic: 15 Strength, 56 Crit, 29 Hit, 106 AP
Fists of Mukoa: 25 Agility, 37 Haste (2.35%), 76 AP
Bow-Stitched Leggings: 42 Agility, 20 Strength, 37 Crit, 150 AP

Total of: 515 AP, 129 Crit (5.84% Crit), 115.5 Agility (4.62% Crit), 29 Hit, 2.35% Haste.

Nonset would make me lose: 64 AP, 31 Hit.
Nonset would make me gain: 2.76% Crit, 2.35% Haste.

I don't know about you, but I don't think that's going to make a HUGE difference as you're trying to claim. A difference, sure. But not a big one.

(*) Awfully sleepy today, hope I didn't mess anything up.

[e] You also gain: 81.4 Stamina, 14.3 Int by wearing t6 over above listed items. The intellect difference would be larger if I were comparing it to Grips of the Damned & Shoulders of Lightning Reflexes.
[e2] This is all assuming Kings of course.

Why not? If it's a personal view on it and he hardly notice any DPS loss why can't you just buy that?

Edit: Comment was to the tauren.

You should actually be comparing the Hydross shoulders vs the T6 as best in slot.

or LWing shoulders (like mine).

Also, the 4 piece set bonus from T6 has some EP value.

Well yah, I would but I don't have them. I was just comparing my options. It's all moot anyway. Nonset will provide more DPS. I never said it didn't. Just wanted to go in against the claims that it would be a "huge" difference.

Don't forget socket bonus (8 ap for the Midnight chestguard and 4 crit on the Bow-Stitched Leggings)

Uh, how are you getting such different numbers then? I'm prepared to go back on my statements if I were to be proven wrong somehow. Let's see here...

My sockets and enchants for Tier6:

[Skyshatter Tunic] + 6 All Stats + 1x[Jagged Seaspray Emerald] + 2x[Smooth Lionseye]
(I've considered to use 2 spinels rather than the 10 Crit gems, but using 10 Crit gems and my EP values the 10 Crit x2 came out better)
[Skyshatter Pauldrons] + Aldor Enchant + 2x[Bold Crimson Spinel]
[Skyshatter Gloves] + 15 Strength + [Inscribed Pyrestone]
[Skyshatter Pants] + Nethercobra Enchant + [Inscribed Pyrestone]

vs what? I'd be interested to see what you socket the best in slot with.

Oh you were only doing 4pc T6? I was comparing 5pc.

[e] You posted right as I did.

Please note I didn't include enchants here because both items are going to have the same gains there.

t6 shoulders - 34 str 11 hit 26 crit 13 str 10 crit 2 pyrestones
t6 gloves - 39 str 13 hit 21 crit 7 str 5 crit 1 pyrestone
t6 chest - 46 str 15 hit 27 crit 19 str 10 crit 1 amethyst, 2 pyrestones
t6 legs - 46 str 21 hit 39 crit 7str 1 amethyst

Totals(with Kings) - 232.1 (464 ap, 534 with t6bonus) str 60 hit 138 (6.27%) crit

hidden predator - 38 agi 26 crit 76 ap
fists of mukkoa - 25 agi 37 haste 76 ap
midnight chestguard - 29 hit 46 crit 106 ap 20 str 5 crit 8 ap 1 spinel, 1 pyrestone, 1 amethyst
bow-stitched leggings - 42 agi 20 crit 100 ap 20 str 4 crit 1 spinel, 1 pyrestone, 1 amethyst

Totals(with Kings) - 454 ap 202.64 (9.21%) crit 37 haste

Yah. 4pieces (Shoulders, Chest, Legs & Gloves) + Cursed Vision. There's no way I'd not wear Cursed Vision, it's just too good.

Interestingly enough, if you have both Shoulderpads of the Stranger (from Hydross) and Gloves of the Searing Grip (from Al'ar) the total expertise score rounds up making it one of the most powerful combination : 200.79 + 179.01 = 379.8 AEP

Shoulderpads of the Stranger + Grips of damnation makes 194.43 (due to 2 expertise score lost) + 188.97 = 383.4 AEP which is only a 1% increase.

I hope you are just joking. We are not really supposed to heal and this occasional instant LHW makes no difference in helping the healers. When I had this bonus I felt it's only for keeping myself busy when shocks and SS are on cooldown.

I don't think implied anything along the lines of being a replacement healer with the set bonus.

Yeah, I don't think he was talking about using it regularly as an actual reliable means of healing the raid. It's more of a handy, "oh, look, that guy just took a Static Disruption and got knocked into the air immediately after, and will die when he lands if no one else noticed" (on Eagle in ZA, since it's the first thing that came to mind). Yes, our first and foremost job is to DPS and to improve the DPS of everyone in our group, but (and I speak from the PoV of mostly 10-mans here, of course) never, ever forget that you have heal buttons you can use in emergencies. I would never specifically go for the T5 bonus just for the sake of having it over some actual DPS upgrade, but I'd definitely use it if I happened to have it.

I wear the same as you stated that you had, 4p t6 with Cursed Vision, but for different reasons.

I have the [Shoulders of Lightning Reflexes] (and [Shoulders of the Hidden Predator]), and the [Grips of Damnation] (and [Fists of Mukoa]), but I did not win the Bow-stitched or the Midnight chest.

Once I get one of those items, I'll be swapping out my 4p t6 for the off-set pieces. Simply more EP.

I know you agree that offset is more damage, but why argue wearing something less than the best? I don't think looking good in armor weighs as high as putting out more damage.

The problem is that the non-set is better at every step of the way. T6 only comes close when you add in the +70 AP set bonus. So for every piece of gear you grab until 4/5 T6, non-set is a lot better choice, then at 4/5 T6, non-set is a little better, then once you are in Sunwell and start losing T6, non-set is a lot better.