Yes section 1 says WF is best on both weapons. Yet section 3.2.2 says FT is better on a fast weapon such as Malchazeen. Figured the specific info was better than the generalized.

I'll look into the sim. Thanks.

No, 3.2.2 says that IF you are using a green OH, you might be able to temporarily replace it with an epic quality dagger using Flametongue. The same section says that this should not be a permanent weapon set up, its a stop gap measure if you're just having shitty luck with drops.

In other news, this looks pretty decent.
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ofcontempt.jpg
Using the T6 values that looks to be better than the DST at about 178 EP.
[e] see below

Valid points.

Edit:
So far the simulator shows higher DPS using Decapitator MH and Fool's Bane OH using WF on both. I set up using the simplest scenario. Basically had to. My trinkets are not listed and neither are the enchants I have or can afford atm. Very nice tool.

Not to mention it seems to drop inside Heroic Magister's Terrace! Could save some DKP by passing on Madness afterall :-)

Oof ok I take that back. The DST value I was looking at used the T5 (original) EP values. Using T6 values the DST is 187 EP. So at 178 the Shard of Contempt is still pretty damn good, and could be considered a valid side-grade quality item I suppose. Not best in slot though.
Its late and I'm dumb.

Coming from a guy who is still doing pug Gruul raids for DST (Saw it drop 6 times.. lost all 6 even with rolling 95 in one of them)... LFG Heroic Magister's Terrace.

.... Ok apparently I can't read. I calculated that trinket as though it were an On Use with a 2min cooldown. Oops.

Well let me do the math :

44 Expertise Rating
Chance on hit 230 AP for 20 seconds.

Assuming internal cooldown of 45 seconds (General Rule) & an expertise value of 3.18 per rating.

(44x3.18) + ((230x20)/45)) = 139.92 + 102.22 = 242.14 EP

Am I doing something wrong here Oo ?

Let me redo the math but valuing the expertise as solid hit instead of expertise seeing in most cases we gonna be behind the mob :

(44x1.69) + 102.22 = 176.58 EP <== This is still good.

Also did the liberty of running Yo's Sim again with my current stats and having the hours set to 10'000 to get accurate numbers :

Attack Power = 1
Crit rating = 1.81
Hit rating = 1.68
Haste rating = 1.91
Armor penetration = 0.3
Strength = 2.2
Agility = 1.76
Expertise rating = 3.21

You had the same idea that I did Bragor. According to the calc I did, just to be exactly as good at the DST it would need an internal cooldown of 2 minutes.

iLevel 115 = "other bosses" in Heroic Magister's Terrace. Sick.

That is fantastic.

I got reeeeeeeeeeeeeally happy in my pants when I saw this Sunwell Plateau Trash drop:

Mounting Vengeance - Items - WOWDB


Mounting Vengeance
Binds when picked up
Off Hand Fist Weapon
196 - 365 Damage Speed 2.60
(107.9 damage per second)
+22 Stamina
Yellow Socket
Blue Socket
Socket Bonus: +3 Strength
Durability 75 / 75
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases attack power by 46.
Equip: Your attacks ignore 140 of your opponent's armor.

How much of an upgrade is Mounting Vengeance over the S3 weapons? I guess the sockets are what really tip it, but the S3 weps have a lot of stats.

Good for you non-orcs, but what about us orcish shamans?

Anyways, concerning trinkets remember that you are comparing Gruul trinket to Sunwell trinket, it should be miles ahead. Just that other trinkets on the way are not that suitable for us. Also expertise has i think taken blizzard by suprise just how powerful it is.

Assuming T6 EP values and 1 OH DPS = 3.70 EP, lets compare the Vengeful Cleaver and Mounting Vengeance with the Orc racial expertise factored in.

Vengeful Gladiator's Cleaver
(103.1 damage per second) - (381.47 EP)
+30 Stamina
Equip: Improves hit rating by 8 (0.51% @ L70). - (13.52 EP)
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 21 - (36.54 EP)
Equip: Increases attack power by 34. (34 EP)
Equip: Your attacks ignore 49 of your opponent's armor. (17.15 EP)
20 Expertise Rating (Orcish Racial) - (63.6 EP)
Total = 546.28 Offhand EP

Now if we only itemize Expertise at half its normal value due to it only affecting one hand (??) - (31.8 EP) which would result in a total EP of 514.48.

Mounting Vengeance
(107.9 damage per second) - (399.23 EP)
+22 Stamina
Yellow Socket (Assuming +10 STR Gem) - (22 EP)
Blue Socket (Assuming +10 STR Gem) - (22 EP)
Socket Bonus: +3 Strength (Not Applicable)
Equip: Increases attack power by 46. (46 EP)
Equip: Your attacks ignore 140 of your opponent's armor. (49 EP)
Total = 538.23 Offhand EP

Now the question is, would we value expertise rating so high when the racial expertise only affects the item in one hand?

Just wanted to confirm some tests in-game with 3 monster types vs. my enhancement shaman. Also weapon choices in general based on pure dps and speed.

Weapons index for enhancement spec shamans:
Weapons Index Raiding Enhancements - Shaman

Off-hand imbue tests for enhancement spec shamans:
Offhand Buff Matrix Raiding Enhancements - Shaman


Thanks to Malan and Disquette for all the input. Made my life easier.


- Asirae

With regards to Mongoose. Is the haste portion of the buff a function similar to flurry or haste stats? Or more like Seal of the Crusader which reduces swing speed while reducing damage done. For a net of the same dps. Though with that sort of haste buff you lose dps on yellow damage.

According to wowwiki it functions in the 2nd manner. Making it a negative for the most part, but in particular for shaman.

Yet all the theorycrafting I've been able to find on Mongoose either glosses over the haste portion of the effect or assumes it to be a positive.

So how exactly does the haste function of mongoose work?

To be fair, generally speaking 20 sec duration procs/uses are on a 2 minute CD. They wouldn't (I don't think) put a 45 sec CD on a 20 sec duration buff, you'd have a very high uptime.

Also, in the calculation you could pretty much always assume that during the 9.5 seconds of "part 1 stacking time" that there will be a SS used, so knock off 1.9 secs there for the 2 instant attacks.

Mongoose is a flat multiplier haste effect, reduces your swing time by 2%. There is no damage reduction.

DPS is all that matters, damage range doesn't matter at all, IIRC.

I don't think trash loot has to be inferior, look at [Band of Devastation]'s ilvl. Same as Illy/archy loot.

Sup [Totem of Healing Rains]. Totems are usually a buff to one of you spells so unless they make a copy of an old one(there are a few) and bump it's stats from ilvl, you are stuck with it.

I thought about applying the new enchant "Deathfrost" on my offhand. Supports the MT and he still has the possibility to get Mongoose on his weapon for even better avoidance stats. Any thoughts on that idea?

Several of the weapons in that list don't at all agree with the testing that's been done here, particularly having the S3 weapons below Rod of the Sun King.