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Old 02/12/08, 11:04 AM   #7001
Doora
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Asirae View Post
Updated my weapons base index.

Weapons Index Raiding Enhancements - Shaman

Note: these weapons are split for Main-hand vs. Off-hand and simply calc the raw weapon dps & speed. Doesn't include weapon enchants, +stats, +procs, +abilities.... just base enhancement weapons.
If you do not include stats, procs and similar stuff you are doing something terribly wrong. Stats increases dps as well as white dps on the weapon. Same for procs (like the Drakefist Hammer - Dragonmaw - Dragonstrike) one.

Plus Rage & Fury speed is 2.6 not 2.7. Those weapons are in no means better than merciless ones.

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Old 02/12/08, 11:25 AM   #7002
Macar
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Warrior
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Maybe I'm missing something here, but ... why are you updating us on your blog?
Becasue it is theorycrafting?


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Old 02/12/08, 11:40 AM   #7003
Yo!
Piston Honda
 
Yo!'s Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Страж Смерти (EU)
+ Added ranks to elemental talents
+ Added Call of Flame talent
+ Added support for Lootrank (link is very long so you need to scroll to copy it fully)
- Higher ranks of Reverbation produce slightly less dps with same number of shocks per 2 minures due ti the limited Global cooldown simulation. This is offset if you increase number of shocks (that is why you choose reverbation anyway)

What is the spell damage coefficient for Searing totem now?

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Old 02/12/08, 11:43 AM   #7004
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
WoWWiki claims it gets 8%.

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Old 02/12/08, 12:38 PM   #7005
Devnex
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Macar View Post
Becasue it is theorycrafting?
Theorycrafting that's intended to rate weapons but doesn't take into account stats/ap/procs.

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Old 02/12/08, 1:06 PM   #7006
possmann
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Area 52
Shifting Tanzanite missing?

Is there any reason why the Shifting Tanzanite gem isn't listed in the gems section? I believe it is currently the best gem for maximizing shaman dps while fulfilling the blue gem requirements of meta gems or gem bonuses, and deserves mention as it is a fairly unique in this aspect.

Superb guide.

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Old 02/12/08, 1:07 PM   #7007
Draenorm
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Laughing Skull
Have you all talked about how general haste abilities (heroism/ bloodlust, drums) affect the global cooldown for spells in 2.4? When those two abilities are active, totem twisting seems much more fluid. I know it's fairly simple math, but I'd like to see the differences between being hasted/not hasted and how it affects shocking/ stormstriking.

There are also a couple new items to plug your values into:
Starstalker Legguards - Items - WOWDB
[Clutch of Demise]

My aep for the neck is 167, same value as [Choker of Endless Nightmares].

Leggings give me 270 compared to 222 from [Bow-Stitched Leggings].

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Old 02/12/08, 1:24 PM   #7008
Myul
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Eredar (EU)
I expect only spellhaste to have an effect on your global cooldown for twisting and shocking, won't it?

Neck is +- 2% as good as the chocker, but a decent stamina upgrade. And if your ferals/fury/rogues don't have it yet, i would pass on it for them. They really need the hit to dps, we don't.

The feral leggings are a ~ +5% sidegrade, the other ones are a huge boost of 40-50% for me. What ep are you using?

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Old 02/12/08, 1:35 PM   #7009
Rob
Paid $25 To Raid
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Hm. Just re-read the Sim part of the OP. It states that you should run Yo!'s sim five times and take the average of the test results generated. Would it not be better to take the median[1]? It would remove odd higher and lower results completely instead of baking the flaws into the result. Nit-picking, I know. :P


[1] Median - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I dunno, really we should be establishing 95% confidence intervals, right? Seriously though, if you got a data set {1.60, 1.62, 1.70, 1.70, 1.74} for some EP value, the mean is 1.67 and the median is 1.70, but the most piece of data that looks most like an "outlier" is 1.74, so I'm not convinced that this technique will always work in your favor. Theoretically, yes, the median is more "outlier-resistant", but we aren't really dealing with large data sets, and we are using data coming from an algorithmic simulation, not the "real world" so I think that our sampling error is going to be much lower.

I guess I'm saying that we would need to see the distribution of EP values for a single stat from ~100 sims with the same inputs, to determine if tossing apparent outliers is a productive strategy or not.

Last edited by Rob : 02/12/08 at 1:49 PM.

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Old 02/12/08, 2:23 PM   #7010
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by possmann View Post
Is there any reason why the Shifting Tanzanite gem isn't listed in the gems section? I believe it is currently the best gem for maximizing shaman dps while fulfilling the blue gem requirements of meta gems or gem bonuses, and deserves mention as it is a fairly unique in this aspect.

Superb guide.
Because that is a gem drop from heroic SV, not a craftable gem. While it could be better than a +8 str gem, it's not easily attainable.


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Old 02/12/08, 2:25 PM   #7011
Raut
Major Berserk
 
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Raut
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account (EU)
We are dealing with large data-sets. The numbers we are dealing with are from 10k hours worth of simulated action. Maybe doing the mean over five sims is redundant; we could run 50k hours instead? The median will take the top or bottom of the worst cases, that is a good thing. Then again, if there are variations in the sims, people must be using too small data sets. Bump it to 100k hours. That should even out the 0.1 variations.

Baby, you can hold my balls.

10:10 < buu_> Raut: You are a hero of the internet.

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Old 02/12/08, 2:39 PM   #7012
BoinKlasik
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
Because that is a gem drop from heroic SV, not a craftable gem. While it could be better than a +8 str gem, it's not easily attainable.
I think its more along the lines that these gems are still UE until the next patch, a single gem is not going to make a drastic change in how people gem their sockets.

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Old 02/12/08, 2:51 PM   #7013
Mengus
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by BoinKlasik View Post
I think its more along the lines that these gems are still UE until the next patch, a single gem is not going to make a drastic change in how people gem their sockets.
There's also the drop factor to contend with, I know I've run Heroic SV upwards of 50 times, and have only seen the gem drop one run (though 2 drops that run). I think anyone with half a brain will recognize (upon reading the first post) that a STR/AGI gem > STR/STA gem. It's the same reason why the epic crafted gems don't need to be listed.

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Old 02/12/08, 2:53 PM   #7014
Draenorm
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Laughing Skull
Originally Posted by Myul View Post
I expect only spellhaste to have an effect on your global cooldown for twisting and shocking, won't it?

Neck is +- 2% as good as the chocker, but a decent stamina upgrade. And if your ferals/fury/rogues don't have it yet, i would pass on it for them. They really need the hit to dps, we don't.

The feral leggings are a ~ +5% sidegrade, the other ones are a huge boost of 40-50% for me. What ep are you using?
Spellhaste is included in heroism/ drums of battle. Go on ptr and test it out, it's pretty awesome. Just pop hero/ lust and plop a few totems down.

About the leggings, I didn't calculate sockets in my last post. Here's all 4 leggings for comparion, sockets assume max dps. The values I'm using are the average numbers from 10 10,000 hours.

crit 2
hit 1.9
agi 1.94
haste 1.83
armor pen .4

[Bow-Stitched Leggings] 287
Starstalker Legguards - Items - WOWDB 335
[Leggings of the Immortal Beast] 332
[Leggings of the Immortal Night] 428

Pretty nice upgrade until you can get your hands on the rogue legs.

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Old 02/12/08, 3:08 PM   #7015
Psibeast
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
The Venture Co
Quick question: I was looking over one of our WWS parses when I noticed I had "misses" for WF and Stormstrike. I got the 9% hit talents and around 150 hit rating on top of that, shouldn't I get 0% misses for special attacks? Or are those attacks that were dodged/parried?

Psibeast - WWS

Thanks.

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Old 02/12/08, 3:14 PM   #7016
Draenorm
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Laughing Skull
WWS just counts dodges/ parries as misses

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Old 02/12/08, 3:15 PM   #7017
Othieus
Von Kaiser
 
Othieus's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wyrmrest Accord
I'll be satisfied when Blizz actuitaly puts in mail thats for Enhance, not just some hunter hand-me-downs. The weapons are starting to look better though...Stalking Vengance is awsome

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Old 02/12/08, 3:51 PM   #7018
Rob
Paid $25 To Raid
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
We are dealing with large data-sets. The numbers we are dealing with are from 10k hours worth of simulated action. Maybe doing the mean over five sims is redundant; we could run 50k hours instead? The median will take the top or bottom of the worst cases, that is a good thing. Then again, if there are variations in the sims, people must be using too small data sets. Bump it to 100k hours. That should even out the 0.1 variations.
I don't know how "hours" impacts the EP calculations that Yo's sim does. But theoretically, if I make the same assumption that you do (hours impacts the quality of EP calculations), then using the average (not median) of 10 sets of 10k hours should deliver identical results to using the value of 1 set of 100k hours.

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Old 02/12/08, 5:19 PM   #7019
jlavarj
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Mage
 
Bloodscalp
Originally Posted by Draenorm View Post
WWS just counts dodges/ parries as misses
If you expand the stats for an attack row item, it'll show the number of each for parries/dodges/miss

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Old 02/12/08, 6:40 PM   #7020
Morelis
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Draenorm View Post
[Bow-Stitched Leggings] 287
Starstalker Legguards - Items - WOWDB 335
[Leggings of the Immortal Beast] 332
[Leggings of the Immortal Night] 428

Pretty nice upgrade until you can get your hands on the rogue legs.
If I remember correctly the feral legs transmute into the rogue ones, so if you had them you'd just have to turn them in with a sunmote(which are a common drop).

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Old 02/12/08, 7:02 PM   #7021
Gehenna
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Bloodscalp
Originally Posted by Psibeast View Post
Quick question: I was looking over one of our WWS parses when I noticed I had "misses" for WF and Stormstrike. I got the 9% hit talents and around 150 hit rating on top of that, shouldn't I get 0% misses for special attacks? Or are those attacks that were dodged/parried?

Psibeast - WWS

Thanks.
I do get SS misses at times, i understand WWS may not show if you really missed or not, but i have seen "your Stormstrike misses X" before in my combat log.

I've always wondered why but never explored into it.

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Old 02/12/08, 7:20 PM   #7022
BoinKlasik
Von Kaiser
 
BoinKlasik's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Gehenna View Post
I do get SS misses at times, i understand WWS may not show if you really missed or not, but i have seen "your Stormstrike misses X" before in my combat log.

I've always wondered why but never explored into it.
Banshee wail from Hyjal trash causes this in the most common of cases, it adds a significant ammount of miss to all attacks, which of course includes specials. nothing makes me cringe more than a double miss WF.

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Old 02/12/08, 8:17 PM   #7023
Rapparee
Piston Honda
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Bloodhoof
Originally Posted by Yo! View Post
What is the spell damage coefficient for Searing totem now?
According to a WWS of mine from Jan 21st.
Searing totem had a max normal hit of 261 and I was wearing roughly 855spell damage (i was resto that night)
I also didn't have Call of Flame.

261 - 66(normal max damage on searing totem) = 195
195/855 = 22.8%

So 22.8% of spell damage is my guess as to how much spell damage searing totem receives per tick. I should go in game and test that 50-66 for the base numbers. Roughly 25% feels way too high.

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Old 02/12/08, 9:12 PM   #7024
Smokestomp
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by Rapparee View Post
According to a WWS of mine from Jan 21st.
Searing totem had a max normal hit of 261 and I was wearing roughly 855spell damage (i was resto that night)
I also didn't have Call of Flame.

261 - 66(normal max damage on searing totem) = 195
195/855 = 22.8%

So 22.8% of spell damage is my guess as to how much spell damage searing totem receives per tick. I should go in game and test that 50-66 for the base numbers. Roughly 25% feels way too high.
Given that spell dmg, you were raid buffed, and had imp scorch, COE, misery, etc.

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Old 02/13/08, 2:03 AM   #7025
Asirae
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Illidan
Ok. I've imported the basic stats to weapons and used T5 equiv. EP values.

Weapons Index Raiding Enhancements - Shaman

Basic formula:

EJ EP =
weapon dps * (( main-hand EJ EP 9.03 /2.6 ) * speed)
+ (strength * t5+kings modifier 2.2)
+ (agility * t5 modifier 2.0)
+ (crit rating * t5 modifier 2.0)
+ (hit rating * t5 modifier 1.4)
+ (haste rating * t5 modifier 1.5)
+ (armor penetration * t5 modifier 0.3)
+ (expertise rating * t5/t6 modifier of 3.0 (just guessing here))


My 1st question is.... how to measure (or estimate) the EP value of a proc like Dragonstrike's Chance on Hit: Increase Haste Rating by 212 for 10 seconds? I suppose I could extrapolate Proc Per Min and add that to the overall EP value.

Thoughts?

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