Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 282

Devnex · 02/13/08, 3:49 AM

You'd probably be better off ranking them using t6 values. Tier 5 will soon no longer be the median of raiding.

Paradox · 02/13/08, 6:10 AM

It's been posted already but we didn't know what it looked it like, so here it is: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...gvengeance.jpg

Personally I prefer Axes/Maces to sleek rogue-type weapons on my shaman.. but whatever, it looks cool. Also a downside to fists is not seeing them while sheathed.

Hogkar · 02/13/08, 6:54 AM

Wow great thread, it’s really enjoyable to find such quality on the web.

First of all, I’m French, so excuse my lack of writing skills.

As a contribution, regarding the upcoming patch, I would like to get your opinion about this template:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Actually, the Call of thunder change is not that clear but if we except a raw +5% melee crit, it’s a must have (at least for under geared shamies like me).
Spending the 3 next points in Elemental devastation does not necessarily make sense, as you need to loose 1 point in weapon mastery. (Ie a raw 2% dps lost)
But if Call of thunder become +5% spell crit (including shocks), it could make sense. Getting a flat 10% spell crit (5% based I bet) would give you 10 seconds with +9% melee crit.

As I call SR a mini Protective Wall, I would call Elemental devastation my mini (well don’t know the English word) – 30mn CD thing who makes you crit almost all the time as a war -.

If Call of thunder becomes +5% spell crit & +5% melee crit, it would be just awesome. (Far too much I bet)

I don’t have time to play with numbers right now. I’m actually testing for fun Elemental devastation with this template (having reverberation 5/5 instead of call of thunder). Knowing perfectly it’s not optimum with the actual talents, it’s a load of fun anyway when it’s proc, 10 sec dual wielding with +9% crit or switching for a 2axe wind furry like everyone love to see.
Aggro should be horribly difficult to manage by the way….

Mox · 02/13/08, 7:44 AM

Originally Posted by Hogkar

If Call of thunder becomes +5% spell crit & +5% melee crit

It was a typo in the original notes, this talent will not give 5% melee crit in the patch.

Additionally, 9% extra crit from elemental devastion would not cause you to "crit all the time" its only alittle more than the crit gain from mongoose which is up about x10 more than elemental devastion would be.

The build you linked is fairly bad, 4/5 wep mastery? yay for throwing away damage. Adtionally I haven't done the maths but I'm guessing if you shocked every single CD then 5/5 reverb will give you more dps than 3/3 elemental devastion.

Hogkar · 02/13/08, 8:45 AM

** removing my post following a misreading in patch note **

◊ Malan · 02/13/08, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Hogkar

blah blah
Call of thunder
blah blah
Elemental devastation
blah blah

I'm going to freak out and yell and scream at the next guy to suggest this.

h4rr0d · 02/13/08, 10:12 AM

I was lucky enough to pick this beauty up on my first heroic MGT (bet ill be farming it at least 2 weeks on live servers >_< ) and went to Blasted lands to do some research. Here is data i have collected. Hope it helps.

2/13 14:28:34.296  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:29:20.015  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:30:28.843  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:31:19.468  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:32:04.593  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:32:52.187  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:33:37.546  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:34:29.984  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:35:42.843  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:36:36.187  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:37:40.078  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:38:32.328  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF
2/13 14:39:19.796  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000986030,Tenehuini,0x511,45053,Heroism,0x40,BUFF

◊ Malan · 02/13/08, 10:17 AM

2/13 14:32:52.187 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED
2/13 14:33:37.546 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED

Almost exactly 45sec apart on those 2.

Durigen · 02/13/08, 11:31 AM

Are the loot drops finalized to some degree? Due to the number of shard epics, my guild and I were discussing the possiblity that it would be a quest reward, not a boss drop. But everything here sounds very much like a drop.

Bragor · 02/13/08, 11:57 AM

So my Assumition that the trinket will have a cooldown of 45 seconds if not changed from the PTR will hold true.

Guess which instance I am gonna be farming daily come next patch ?

h4rr0d · 02/13/08, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Durigen

Are the loot drops finalized to some degree? Due to the number of shard epics, my guild and I were discussing the possiblity that it would be a quest reward, not a boss drop. But everything here sounds very much like a drop.

atm this trinket drops from 3rd boss in MGT heroic along with other trinkets (or at least the tank trinket). dont forget that MGT heroic is not aimed for T6 geared parties (for which 90% of drops will be shard epics), the fact some drops are beyond compare to existing items only proves that blizz is clueless regarding itemization.

Mox · 02/13/08, 1:55 PM

Originally Posted by h4rr0d

atm this trinket drops from 3rd boss in MGT heroic along with other trinkets (or at least the tank trinket). dont forget that MGT heroic is not aimed for T6 geared parties (for which 90% of drops will be shard epics), the fact some drops are beyond compare to existing items only proves that blizz is clueless regarding itemization.

Better yet, how does a item with a lower ilvl thus a lower stat points allocation manage to be better than one with a higher ilvl, this to me raises a question over the [actual] stat weights blizzard assigns to stats when they can make expertise, a stat that significantly increases DPS and then make it much 'cheaper' than haste that has a even less affect on DPS.

Well actually I've always wondered wtf system blizzard use when you say compare a plate item ilvl 141 with a mail item 141 and the plate is miles better.

dr_AllCOM3 · 02/13/08, 2:03 PM

How long does it take to simulate 10k hours in Yo's? I'm curious and want some comparisons to my own warrior simulator

.

Draenorm · 02/13/08, 2:19 PM

Not sure on exact minutes, I just tab back into game and let it run. I think it's around 15 minutes?

h4rr0d · 02/13/08, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by Mox

Better yet, how does a item with a lower ilvl thus a lower stat points allocation manage to be better than one with a higher ilvl, this to me raises a question over the [actual] stat weights blizzard assigns to stats when they can make expertise, a stat that significantly increases DPS and then make it much 'cheaper' than haste that has a even less affect on DPS.

Well actually I've always wondered wtf system blizzard use when you say compare a plate item ilvl 141 with a mail item 141 and the plate is miles better.

thats because the mail items have intellect on it, imagine mail loot with 2/3 intellect converted to strength and voila, you got ultimate shaman loot. if you compare [Surestrike Goggles v2.0] and [Furious Gizmatic Goggles], they are the same, my guess would be that its the same with all other loot
imho blizz is kinda clueless about trinkets and expertise. they clearly underestimated the impact of expertise on melee DPS (also this can be fixed very easily by increasing ammount of expertise rating needed to gain 1 expertise) and they are underestimating value of procs (for example DST).

Khruschev · 02/13/08, 2:40 PM

Good updates, Malan.

I question only two minor points:

First, you recommend Windfury Totem for Paladin tanks. Having a Protadin myself, I'm certain that Wrath of Air provides a much larger threat boost than Windfury for Paladins.

Second, it's been my experience that a Ret Paladin can fill that wildcard slot in the ideal melee DPS group at least as well as any of the other classes you listed.

I'm open to correction. Thanks for creating such an invaluable resource.

◊ Malan · 02/13/08, 2:48 PM

Sure I can change the prot paladin line around, and yes a ret paladin fits there just as well.

Khruschev · 02/13/08, 2:55 PM

Thank you <3

Rapparee · 02/13/08, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by Rapparee

According to a WWS of mine from Jan 21st.
Searing totem had a max normal hit of 261 and I was wearing roughly 855spell damage (i was resto that night)
I also didn't have Call of Flame.

I did forget to determine misery and imp. scorch, so i checked the WWS.
Misery and Fire Vulernability were applied to the boss, that's about 20% increased fire damage.

(261/1.2) - 66(normal max damage on searing totem) = 151.5
151.5/855 = 17.8%

If anyone else wants to help Yo! improve the searing totem equations in his sim, feel free to add your data.

Low Life · 02/13/08, 4:18 PM

Now that you've updated the OP, I'm finding one bit of it a bit conflicting to what I've read earlier. Currently, the weapon enchant (from enchanting) part states:

Clearly Mongoose is the preferred enchant, although Crusader can be a cheaper, but still effective alternative. Potency should be completely avoided.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but your last version had it worded as "Mongoose > Crusader > Potency", and you actually stated that none of them was wrong. I haven't read the whole thread, but has there been some new information about this?

With the default buffs and my stats on Yo's simulator (did them several times at 2k hours, and estimated the average. Variation wasn't big):
Potency: 1073dps
Crusader: 1073dps
Mongoose: 1093dps

Only SoE and Sunder Armor (I only do Kara/ZA with a casual guild, so the buffs vary a lot between raids):
Potency: 713dps
Crusader: 712dps
Mongoose: 723dps

This clearly shows that Mongoose is better, add the fact that it increases UR uptime for the group and it should be the number one choice. However I do not see why Potency should be completely avoided as you state, if given the choice between Potency and Crusader.

Smokestomp · 02/13/08, 7:07 PM

Malan, there is still inconsistency with your T6 values. I made a post about it before, but you probably never saw it cause I can't even find it now.

High Raid (T6) EP Values
These values were contributed by forum member Sebudai based on an end-game T6 gear set, essentially with best-in-slot items for all slots. These should be viewed as a rough estimate for shaman entering T6 content, and include Blessing of Kings.
Strength = 2.2 EP
Agility = 1.69 EP
Crit Rating = 1.74 EP
Hit Rating = 1.69
Haste Rating = 1.82
Armor Penetration = 0.35 EP
Expertise Rating = 3.18 (Yo's Simulator recently changed to give EP weights to Expertise Rating)

Wouldn't AGI = CR given you are assuming BoK?

Bdatik · 02/13/08, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by Low Life

This clearly shows that Mongoose is better, add the fact that it increases UR uptime for the group and it should be the number one choice. However I do not see why Potency should be completely avoided as you state, if given the choice between Potency and Crusader.

Crusader is a superior enchant, and costs less when compared to Potency. Really no reason why someone should spend more money for an inferior weapon enchant.

Originally Posted by Smokestomp

Wouldn't AGI = CR given you are assuming BoK?

1 Crit Rating = 0.0453% crit. (22.08 is 1%)
1 agility = 0.04% crit (25 is 1%)
1.1 agility (BoK) = 0.044% crit (22.5 is 1%)

Even with BoK, Crit Rating is slightly better DPS wise.

Low Life · 02/13/08, 7:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bdatik

Crusader is a superior enchant, and costs less when compared to Potency. Really no reason why someone should spend more money for an inferior weapon enchant.

But why exactly is it superior? I seemed to get the same amount of DPS on the sim with both enchants. I might be missing something, but I just don't see how you can call an enchant superior over something that produces the exact same benefit. Cost is of course a valid reason to pick Crusader over Potency, but with a friend enchanter giving some of the Potency mats for free I don't see why my enchant of choice would be "obviously wrong"

Smokestomp · 02/14/08, 2:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bdatik

1 Crit Rating = 0.0453% crit. (22.08 is 1%)
1 agility = 0.04% crit (25 is 1%)
1.1 agility (BoK) = 0.044% crit (22.5 is 1%)

Even with BoK, Crit Rating is slightly better DPS wise.

Thats what I needed to see, thanks!

Sûl · 02/14/08, 6:21 AM

Originally Posted by Rob

I don't know how "hours" impacts the EP calculations that Yo's sim does. But theoretically, if I make the same assumption that you do (hours impacts the quality of EP calculations), then using the average (not median) of 10 sets of 10k hours should deliver identical results to using the value of 1 set of 100k hours.

I've found this to be quite accurate. And therefore have been using single 100k hour simulationruns for my calculations.