muSashiSF

Just got the Shard of contempt and after 20 minutes of testing on the PTR I can confirm that the cooldown on the trinket proc is 45 seconds. That was the lowest I got atleast.

 

Endralith

So whats the EP value of shard then? if the 45 sec CD is correct... it should be insane no?

 

Nemaa

http://elitistjerks.com/634022-post6960.html
(44x3.18) + ((230x20)/45)) = 139.92 + 102.22 = 242.14 EP is the correct value I think.

Some of my videos

 

automatica

My melee DPS group typically consists of myself, a feral druid, a combat swords rogue, a ret paladin and either an arms or fury warrior. The combination is pure damage.

 

Malan

Well that's slightly inaccurate. Bragor didn't account for the proc rate or ppm of the trinket, that calculation says that the AP benefit is triggered every 45 seconds on the dot. If the spell data that someone linked to was correct, its a 10% chance to proc on hit.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Nemaa

You are right. If there's a 45 second internal cooldown and the procrate is about 10% on hit (outside of the cd) the value of the trinket is slighlty lower. Considering we hit like 6-8 times in a 10 second period it's not a big deal.

Also Bragor's calculation on the other trinket (haste + stacking ap buff on proc) is not correct.
http://elitistjerks.com/634059-post6964.html
The "stacking up" phase will be shorter because of stormstrike and occasional WF procs. So the suggested AP value of the trinket is some kind of minimum value (if it's internal cd is really 45 sec). We need ingame testing of course.

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Pitbuller

(44x3.18) + ((230x20)/60)) = 139.92 + 76.67 = 216.6ep
This would be more accurate ep value of shard.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Malan

Assuming it as an effective 1ppm, sure.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

ChaguraED

It may not be much shorter. The Stacking Buff from Darkmooncard:Crusade does not apply stacks for Windfury hits, only whites and Storm Strikes. So the added Stormstrike may shave off the 0.5 seconds.

 

Tuili

Lovely, lovely thread!

Tuili - Hand of Pod tank
Fawne - Enhancement Shaman

 

Sufferings

Has anyone experienced any bugs with Yo's sim? I don't know if I am inputting something wrong, but as of late, I am starting to get weird values. I ran it last night on 100k hours, current gear in armory. I got 2.33crit rating, 2.22 agil, which just seem way to high. As I had thought, strength never be lower than any other value. The only thing I can think of is that my crit is possibly a little low but my AP is high and that is making crit more valuable...but like I said I always thought strength would be the highest value.

Ran the sims from my stats, everything but a feral druid in the group. Any ideas?

 

frozndevl

It was probably just a typo in your input, there have been other reports of similar numbers talked about in the past in the thread. I'd try it again.

 

Sufferings

Actually I ran it many times, a few on 100k hours and probably about 15 tests on 10k hours. All came out with similar results, the 10k ones varied, but all showed crit rating above 2.2 every time.

Any help on this? Has worked great for me every time in the past.

 

frozndevl

The question is did you completely reload the sim every time or just recalculate? Ive run into issues where I TAB into a field and type and it doesn't overwrite the previous text, giving me ridiculous values. I just tested with the defaults and set AP to 2500. In a quick run and ended up with crit=2.65 and agil=2.57.

Running the default sim gave values of crit=1.68 and agil=1.63.

Granted, this is just a quick run, but the sim appears to be running correctly and just produces odd results when the input is odd.

Edit: After reading Vissi's post below, I went and tested with all hunter buffs, and adding madness, Cyclone Harness, and DST, and that gave me values of crit=2.8 and agil=2.72 on a short run. So it looks like that could be the real cause.

 

Vissi

I ran into a similar issue (crit was getting valued @ ~ 2.1 both with and without BoK). I talked to Yo! about it and he brought up that I probably had a large number of Hunter buff's in the group and on crit trinket procs (Tsunami) which made crit more valuable.

 

Rhagok

I don´t find it just now, but someone posted a Macro here which would be really interessting in Enhancement PvP it was something along the lines of

/castrandom Stormstrike, Purge(Rank2)

Now how does this work? Does it really choose randomly between those two spells and if so is there the chance that it does Purge instead of SS when CD is up? Because that would be really bad.

Is it possible to macro something that will SS anytime it is up and otherwise spam Purge on the target?

Originaly posted by Sebudai

 

rava

It really chooses randomly. Yes there is a chance that it will purge instead of SS.

I'm not 100% positive on this, but the macro you want is conditional(if/then) and not allowed as of whatever patch was before TBC. Two buttons is some harsh work, though!

Full price for gum!? That dog won't hunt, Monsignor.

 

Storming

..could someone please explain the bizarre logic behind the notion of NOT having any +hit beyond the usual 9% from talents? if white dmg is such a large % of your overall enhance raid dmg, then wouldnt it behoove you to be hitcapped as you would for any other class such as casters?

much ado is made of flurry. haste is godlike to be sure, but even a hasted attack can miss if youre not capped, and it likely will. the amount of dps youll do from a hasted attack that missed your target is 0.

 

Rhagok

Oh and you forgot that missing attacks can´t proc WF oh and they can´t CRIT too ... lol ^^ this is going to be so funny as you are about the 1,450,257 person to ask this 8)

Originaly posted by Sebudai

 

Malan

1. The 'bizarre logic' (as you put it) is clearly laid out in the first post in the Hit Rating section.

2. Nowhere, and never, has anyone in this community ever suggested that you take no hit beyond 9%. You have grossly misread the information here.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Shiyo

Not only does the OP explain that hit rating, while somewhat useful, does not contribute as much to our dps as other stats such as AP and crit, but it also explains that haste rating is not nearly as useful as AP or crit either.

Hit is useful, it's not like you're avoiding it. It's just, other stats have a higher priority.

 

Storming

Wow, Malan himself. Much as you're likely tired of hearing it, kudos on the thread. It really is excellent stuff, through and through.

Moving right along.. lets ignore WF and crit. I never said anything about those in particular anyway.

I've read the OP, over and over and over. However, no logical justification is presented for not being hitcapped. Yes its true that our yellow dmg is capped from the 9% we get from our talents. Its true that other classes don't enjoy this situation, yes. However this in no way provides any logical premise that talented hit is 'good enough' and white dmg is to relegated to second fiddle just because our yellow dmg is capped.

So basically you're saying, BECAUSE specials are capped (and partly BECAUSE ap and crit apply to both white and yellow dmg), that's a reason to put all your eggs in that particular basket and let the white dmg fall where it may, and if you miss here and there, then whatever?

I'm really quite tired of my guild parroting back at me the stuff they read on this website, but it's as though they don't THINK about what they read. You're basically saying, its ok not to be hitcapped. But why? Just because our specials already are, as of the 9% from talents?

Saying 'it just is' isn't good enough. What logical justification could there possibly be to walk into a raid below the hitcap? Does any other class tolerate that? If a lock steps into BT with 130 hit about how long would it be before they're laughed out the door?

Crit has nothing to do with it, ditto for flurry/haste, etc. I'm not concerned with the whiz-bang dmg, not crit or haste or anything else, just plain hit/miss. Yes crit and ap are important, since strength works the same for us as for warriors, essentially. But what about the small percentage of dmg that you lose due to misses while being under the hitcap?

 

Shiyo

Let's not ignore WF and crit. If our class only did white damage noncrit, your arguement might be valid, but that's not how our damage works.

Hit affects only white damage. AP, crit, and expertise affect all of our physical damage (and an insignificant amount of our shock damage).

Most warriors I know aren't stressing to get hit capped either.

 

Diogo

I think you are still misinterpreting the original post.

At no point it says that you should avoid hit. Just that it is less valuable then other stats.

Let's imagine you have to choose between two pieces of gear: one with 100 ap and 20 crit, and the other with 100ap and 20 hit: the piece that will yield the greatest increase in dps is the one with crit. Hit wont affect your specials, while crit will. Now, if you have the to choose between the same 100ap/20crit and a piece with 100ap/40hit, the latter is better.

It is never about absolutes, just relative weights.

 

Malan

Why would we need to justify something that we never claim?

Personally I'd love to be hit capped, but I'm not going to sacrifice AP and Crit to get there.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06