Vissi

If you are taking leather you can swap a couple things
Grimgrin Faceguard
Bloodsea Brigand's Vest

 

automatica

Bloodsea Brigand's Vest = Yes
Grimgrin Faceguard = No

Keep your Cataclysm Helm until a T6 option with a meta socket.

 

Mengus

Use the sim, that's the best way.

 

rava

New badge weapons for those who care:

[Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality]
[Vanir's Left Fist of Brutality]

Going to run sim once we finish playing around with Brut.

S3(1770 ap, 36.27% crit, 17.37% hit, 2.35% haste, 224 arp, 2x 103.1 dps weps w/ 6 expertise, 206 str, 364 agi, mh mongoose, oh executioner, dst, stonebreaker, earth+fire, most raid buffs) :
7700 ac: 1489, 1491, 1491, 1490, 1489
6200 ac: 1637, 1638, 1639, 1637, 1638

Badge(1790 ap, 35.34% crit, 17.69% hit, 5.14% haste, 126 arp, 2x 103 dps weps w/ 6 expertise, 206 str, 386 agi, everything else the same) :
7700ac: 1482, 1481, 1482, 1479, 1480
6200ac: 1628, 1627, 1630, 1629, 1628

Pretty damn close. I expected a bigger gap with the speed difference but it is ~10 dps in most cases.

Full price for gum!? That dog won't hunt, Monsignor.

 

h4rr0d

According to Vanir's Left Fist of Savagery - Items - WOWDB the offhand is 1.5 speed. Did your sims count with 2.5 speed weapon or with 1.5 speed weapon? Would be bit strange seeing 2.5/1.5 weapons yielding only 1% DPS less than 2.6/2.6 weapons after the 'no fast offhands' crusade.

 

rava

The slow offhand is Brutality, not Savagery.

Full price for gum!? That dog won't hunt, Monsignor.

 

h4rr0d

Oh, I didn't think there would be fast and slow offhand for us. Considering that all generic physical mail loot known so far is 4 hunter pieces from which there are 2 x leggings...

 

Kombinat

There are 3 "Vanir's..." fist weapons.

[Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality]
[Vanir's Left Fist of Brutality]
[Vanir's Left Fist of Savagery]

The last one is not for us.

 

Bragor

So.. Anybody going full out leather come Sunwell ?

I know I am after seeing the leather pieces... only question is.. is it worth ditching one of the pieces for a tier 6 part so to net the 4-piece set bonus from using tier 6 bracers - belt - boots ?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63182wOceL.png

You never know, If you never try.

 

Patrik

As was already nicely summarized by Myul and Genzou on page 277 of this thread, the difference is just 2 EP.

Anyway I know I'm going to wear leather, just as I'm doing now. I find stats on it more desirable. (Anyone else wished we could wear rouge T6?.. )

 

bestpike

Guys id like to ask something. Why have we decided that S3 weapons are better than syphons of nathrezim? i thought weapon speed (and as the guide itself says) was the most important thing, and 0.2 seconds isnt something small. Only from the stormstrike damage, even if we assume it doesnt lead to a windfury proc, we get 2.5 more dps. So i was wondering... Maybe its the stats that the pvp weapons give? crit, hit etc

 

Toots Hepcat

Haven't you played a Shaman long enough to realize there is no one best stat, no one most important factor that, ignoring all else, will always result in the best dps?

Weapon DPS, weapon speed, weapon stats, weapon class (for orcs) all need to be properly balanced just like any other piece of gear. Simulations have shown the slow, slow Syphon beaten by Dragonstrike, RT, Talon and the S3 weapons -- all when calculated by different people with different stats, of course.

At T6, the S3 weapons ALMOST always win. Simulate it yourself, man! They're great weapons that make me wish I didn't hate arena so dang much.

My personal simulations seem to indicate that, all else being equal, each .1s a weapon is slower than 2.4s is worth around a .5% improvement in overall DPS. So a 2.8s weapon is going to be about 1% better overall DPS than a 2.6s weapon. The stats and weapon DPS on the VG weapons usually offer a larger benefit than that.

 

falonub

We can...it's called season3 shaman pvp gear. jk sorry I felt inclined to make a rogue/rouge joke. The leather in sunwell is very, very nice! I am interested to see if they have plans of adding hunter/enh. shaman items to the sunwell vendor, because right now all the mail is just elemental gear

 

Toots Hepcat

I think it's likely they just haven't added mail gear yet. This is all beta stuff, fun to talk about I guess but most of it's going to change so dramatically it's hardly theory fodder.

 

Leonina

How good are the 2.5 speed weapons tho ? For someone without access to BT/MH or S3 weapons

 

• Raut

Really good. Try them in the sim.

Baby, you can hold my balls.

13:17 < Kalroth> gays on men tv? I love that channel

 

poofypajamas

I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, and sorry for asking, but is plus 4 to all stats superior or inferior to +2 weapon damage to rings?

 

Ardonomus

The answer was posted 11 posts ago: Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I

 

Leonina

Thanks! I just skimped that post, didn't read it I truly am sorry that I didn't take time to read it. Basically almost as good as S3, sweet! So, does this means they are the best to be gained from PvE?

 

Bragor

Quoting this from the first post :

Please read the initial post before posting stuff or just use the Search button.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63182wOceL.png

You never know, If you never try.

 

h4rr0d

[Mounting Vengeance] should be better (and if you are raiding on your shaman also probably more accessible) offhand choice. I also hope that there will be mainhand weapon matching its model because it looks realy great and it would be shame to wield something else in mainhand.

 

Shiyo

These two statements seem to conflict to me. Is the OP saying that we should use Mongoose/Executioner or Double mongoose at the t6 level? Armor penetration becomes more accessible at these levels, but most of the gear I got from lootrank using Yo's doesn't have ArP except for a few choice pieces, and it's hardly stacked.

Using Yo's tells me that Mongoose/Executioner is better than Double Mongoose, and I think that's the point that OP is trying to make, but the wording seems confusing. If possible, could this section be clarified?

 

Malan

"nearly unobtainable values of Armor Penetration" is the key there.

But yah I've had 3 people now tell me that part is badly worded. Suggestions?

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Tambard

Maybe condensing it all as such:

At entry raid level, a shaman will probably gain more from dual Mongoose enchants. At high T5 content and beyond, Executioner will become more valuable; thus, Mongoose/Executioner or double Executioner will not outperform the dps benefit of double Mongoose at a pre-T6 level unless the Enhancement Shaman is geared with nearly unobtainable values of Armor Penetration.

 

Lujaar

Looking through the new ptr loot, Shard of Contempt from the new heroic is stupidly good. I'm getting a bit over 130 AEP for the passive alone. Even assuming an ass-terrible proc rate of 0.5 ppm after specials, that's about 170 AEP total. Better than Dragonspine, and by extension every other trinket in WoW. Hopefully we'll see some data on the proc rate soon.

Speaking of expertise and loot, I can't make up my mind on Rising Tide vs the new badge fist for an orc. 1% crit and 3 weapon DPS vs 5 expertise and .1 speed. The deal-breakers seem to be whether the expertise applies to the offhand even if it's not an axe, and whether that graph Yo did holds up in actual gameplay (staggered weapon speeds > identical weapon speeds, so 2.5/2.6 > 2.6/2.6). WTB Fist to Axe Transmute so I don't have to figure this out.