buzzed1979

i did say browsed. ty for the help. but when i click the link i don't see a speadsheet. there is a spot that is all grayed out at the top and then a bunch of q and a after it. am i missing something?

 

Kasi

Well you can use Loot Rank. That seemed to work pretty well using the weight values given. However that just gives a rank of items, not a rank of items based off of items you already have. The other thing is that they don't seem to model RED very well.

 

Shiyo

The mathcraft for an enhancement shaman is more complex than a rogue. We don't use formulas, we use combat simulators and determine the impact of each stat.

Run yo's simulator with your stats and get your EP values. Copy them into lootrank to figure out what would the best upgrades for you.

 

buzzed1979

the simulator does show for me all i get is a gray box w/ questions and answers under it. i go to the page and mouse over the box and it sez click to activate and use this control and when i do it just stays grayed out

 

buzzed1979

i am running enhancer in game aswell

 

Kombinat

Try updating Java. And correct your grammar/capitalization/punctuation before a mod sees it.

 

Wundorn

A few posts back someone claimed that Exe/Mong was equivalent to Mong/Exe with equal-speed weapons. While other parts of his post have been discussed, this was pretty much ignored.

My understanding is that in the cases where Exe is superior to Mong (it depends on how much penetration you already have on your gear), it is superior on the MH ONLY, because it only applies to hits from the weapon it's on. Contrast this with Mongoose- when it procs, all attacks benefit from the additional Agi and haste.

 

buzzed1979

That worked thank you very much. I will try to capitolize from now on.

 

falonub

Sim disagrees :S and to my knowledge I've never seen or been suggested executioner procs only allow the weapon it's enchanted on to gain the benefit. The reason MH vs OH enchant matters is for different speed weapons 2.6 vs 2.8, atleast is my understanding

 

Shiyo

I always thought that executioner applies to both weapons, which is why putting it on both hands causes it to refresh the duration instead of having two buffs.

 

Mengus

I believe the mechanics make it such that having Exe on MH provides most DPS because if the MH applies Exe, and then Procs WF, you get 2 Exe WF'd hits from the MH, which will do a lot more than the OH...

Simming might not be completely accurate for testing, as the underlying mechanics of which weapon hits first may not be modeled exactly as it works in game. However, it has been shown that stop attacking, and starting will generally cause the MH to get the first hit...

 

Pitbuller

Executioner is:
Occasionally ignore 840 of your enemy's armor.

Executiner is NOT:
Occasinal ignore 840 of your enemys's armor for only this hand weapon and if you use two executioner only one can be active at one time without any logigal reason.
Please dont post if you dont know what you are saying.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Omniro

I just played around with Yo!s sim this afternoon to test the new 2.4 stuff and wether maybe there would be mail stuff worth picking up. I did use the EP-values given by Yo!s "best-dps" lootrank link and was very glad to find belt, shoes and wrist at topranked or on the second place. This made me test with the sim if there was any combination of those 3 t6 parts and any of the 5 others worth taking over all the rogue stuff (which sadly still dominates the enh-shamans best-loot-list) and came out with a rather close (but still) "NO".
(did use the same combination of buffs as Yo! and came up with 2379dps for the "rogue" version and 2364dps for the 4t6 version)
I just wanted to let you know that shaman itemisation still s%cks

If anyone want to verify for themselves:
shaman-version: chardev.org - A World of Warcraft character planner v.2.beta
rogue-version: chardev.org - A World of Warcraft character planner v.2.beta (topranked lootrank items)

I just modeled the proc of Shard of Contempt like a "230AP for 20sec every minute = 83AP" (though cd is only 45sec, just to be sure)

edit: Oh man, just found a typo in the "rogue" one. It's only 2322 dps. So, get yourself some mail

 

Myul

Tier 6 pieces aren't upgraded to the actual "stamina" version. But the difference is still very small.

But the main point is, you are not competing for shoulder and the new tier slots, the only interesting items (for a leatherworker) are head/legs.

You should just wait, until the itemisation for hunter and shaman hit the patch until you try to compare all those things in detail. It can't be finished right now, we're still missing some pieces. Shoulders are hot, legs are decent. Chest and head are still missing as far as i know.

And a personal note, i would go for 4 t6 any day (with the three new pieces) for the style of the shoulders

 

Ardonomus

I dont know about you, but for me the DST > Madness, so the two best trinkets would be DST+SoC for me at least. Any particular reason you've chosen Madness over DST?

 

Amagnus

Is there a way to see how stats will change with different gear so I can run Yo simulator to analyze which gear provides the best upgrade?

 

Seidule

Shattered Sun Pendant of Might - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34679

Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve - Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve - Items - World of Warcraft


Interesting notes about these pendants:

- Pendant of Might has a direct damage "Arcane Strike" if you're Scryer, and a 200ap/10sec buff if you're Aldor.
- Pendant of Resolve has a +100 expertise/10sec buff if you're Scryer.

Has anybody done any math on either to see if they may be secretly superior to Serrated Blades/Hard Khorium/Whatever?

 

Rhaegal

Since I can't get to my own personal EP values, I'll just use the T6 values listed on the front page:

18 Agi = 30.42 EP
64 AP = 64 EP
Passive EP: 94.4

If the proc has the same cooldown as all the trinkets, etc. (45 seconds), it's reasonable to assume that it will proc at worst once per minute for the sake of argument, so:

Scryer: (100 crit rating x 1.74 EP/crit) x 10 sec / 60 sec = 29 EP minimum
Aldor: (200 AP x 1EP/AP) x 10 sec / 60 sec = 33 EP minimum

Total ~124 EP for Scryer, 128 for Aldor. Not better than Serrated Blades, let alone the Hard Khorium neck. Obviously that assumes the typical trinket internal CD, which may be totally wrong for necks. My guess is that it won't be terribly far off, though, considering you can get it just for grinding rep. It's a pretty solid step above Kara loot, though, which makes it significantly better than all the other exalted faction rewards, even the expertise LC ring.

Obviously this is mostly meaningless speculation since we have no real data on the proc mechanics, so insert grains of salt as thou wilt.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

 

Seidule

FYI, the Scryer version does NOT grant crit rating. It actually procs a spell called Arcane Strike (Arcane Strike - Spells - World of Warcraft) that does 500 damage to the current target.

I'm also interested in the Pendent of Resolve with its huge Expertise proc..

 

drats

I did not see a response to this. Dukanull did you do any testing?

 

Omniro

Well, I saw the very high Armor Penetration on the gear (over 1k) and also used Executioner on the MH. And as it is (I think) the more ArmorPen one has the better gets every next point of it. Madness provides an ArmorPen buff so it was about logical for me to go for that.
I'd be happy if you have time to run the numbers to prove me wrong or right

 

Illundai

Don't forget this beauty when comparing future trinket choices:

Blackened Naaru Sliver
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 70.
Equip: Increases Haste Rating by 54.
Equip: Chance on hit to enter a Battle Trance, during which your melee or ranged attacks will grant 44 attack power, stacking up to 10 times. Expires after 20 sec.

Depending on the procrate on that, I'd say it's damn sexy.

Yes, Death Knight tanks are/were too good in 3.0.x. Having 38k HP, 76.81% Avoidance (Miss incl.) and not gimping your threat in the first tier of gear is broken. (Yes this is clickable)

 

Grekk

EDIT: My assumption has been proven wrong, check the next page for the explanation.

Concerning Haste:

It may be true that any haste will increase your overall DPS even if it brings your speed below 1.5 but it has one side effect:

It decreases the relative weight of hasterating and therefore the use of Heroism/Bloodlust/Drums.

I did some testing using Yo!s Simulator (adding 30% haste) and got the following results:
(using 2.8MH and 2.6OH)
In my case the 5.9% passive haste combined with dual Mongoose and heroism (and of course flurry) will bring my
MH speed to about 1.5x, once i use drums it drops to 1.4x. (the Sim takes care of Mongoose and Flurry)

passive haste | dps
5.9% 1419
35.9% 1675

10.9%(drums) 1461
40.9% 1687

the DPS gain from drums without Heroism up: 42
the DPS gain from drums with Heroism up: 12

this leads me to the conclusion that the value of haste is lowered by a factor of (in my case) 0.286 once your are below 1.5 speed.

If you spent the entire fight hasted over this 'cap' the AEP weight of haste would drop by OVER 70%!
If you spent half of the fight hasted, it would still be over 35%, which is rather significant when choosing gear.

Haste AEP goes downhill AFTER your 'Heroism-Speed' is below 1.5. Any haste before this is worth exactly as much as Yos Simulator tells you. The new AEP weight is dependant on the length of the fight relative to the hasted time.
(the same with usable trinkets that are best if the fight is exactly 140 seconds long)

My calculated haste-AEP is 1.81.
If the fight is 3 minutes (180 seconds) long, i will spend 25% of the Time hasted to 1.4x.
So basically 25% of the time my haste (beyond the 'cap') is only worth 28.6% of it's original value (loses 71.4%).
Over the whole fight haste will therefore lose 0.25*0.714 = 0.1785 = 17.85% of it's original value.
My haste-AEP for a 3 minute fight where heroism always puts me below the 'cap' is (1-0.1785)*1.81 = 1.4869.

correct me if I'm wrong :P

 

Malan

Binkenstein was doing some leg work on figuring out how to model that stacking effect, I think he said he had it figured it out. I'll check with him about it.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Kahdrick

Expanding from this, it would also seem to show that you gain the most benefit from haste items (pots, bloodlust, and drums) by using them individually, rather than all at once. It looks like I should start using haste potions in rotation with my drums and bloodlust. Probably I'll be burning the drums first, since the buff is slightly smaller and I'll be less likely to pull aggro as a result.

Of course, that has nothing to do with AEP values for haste...

I'd guess that the AEP value doesn't magically plummet once you break 1.5, but rather that it scales proportionately, such that as you build haste rating, the value of additional points lessens. This means that there would be some theoretical point at which additional haste rating is worth less than any other stat. It's been a long time since I was interpolating graphs, but if you can get me, say, 5 points of data (evenly spaced by haste rating increases preferred), I can see if I can come up with a formula for calculating haste value. Sure hope I remember the math correctly - I'll post it all here so other people can verify it.

Keep in mind that pretty much any enhance shaman in a raid will have nearly 100% uptime of flurry, for an automatic 30% haste right off the bat.

Something else: As haste rating increases, and the cooldown of stormstrike (as well as the 3-second cooldown of WF) remains static, the percentage of hits that are white damage vs. those that are yellow damage will increase. Thus, hit rating will gain in value as haste rating increases. Might be worth investigating whether or not the percentage change in white hits vs. yellow hits is significant enough to warrant a greater AEP for hit rating when using lots of haste buffs.

Conversely, people with almost no haste rating on their gear may reach a point at which their weapons are so powerful and slow that the haste rating to gloves enchant outperforms 15 strength. I personally doubt it, but while I'm spouting ideas, I figured I'd throw this one out there, too.

Something else I thought of - as your haste rating increases, the number of hits that you get during the duration of timed buffs will increase, thus increasing the value of those buffs. Anyone want to run some sims and see if it's more valuable to stack haste potions and drums that increase AP than to rotate haste drums and haste potions? I'm assuming from the OP that stacking haste drums and haste pots is automatically less dps than rotating them.

Likewise, stacking more haste will increase the value of items that provide timed buffs, such as the stonebreaker's totem. I don't think that any significant changes in top gear will result though, since most of those buff items are either already top-level, or provide buffs of such short duration as to be relatively insignificant AEP changes from 1 or 2 extra hits of haste.

Shamrogue FTW!