Thanks for that nice and very meaningful comment on the grammar i dont even care about, hope it made you feel good.

I did read that under 1.1.1 but there wasnt any real wf vs flame but nwm.

If you read section 3.2.2, you'll notice a comment on using a fast OH and FT as a stopgap measure while you obtain a decent slow weapon for WF/WF (which is stated multiple times is the best weapon imbue combination). Skimming the first post is not the same as reading it. While Malan may not have updated the section specifically on FB and FT viability yet, a little critical thinking goes a long way. We're not here to do that for you.

And the mods take grammar, punctualization, and capitalization (among other things) seriously, so you may want to consider revising your posts.

From the OP.

Flametongue is wrong. Fast weapons are wrong. Fast + flametongue is only a placeholder if for some reason you have a ridiculously high DPS fast off-hand, and your only other choice is a crappy green lvl 68 axe from the AH. If you're outdamaging people using 2 slow weapons with WF, then they either don't know how to gear and you somehow do, or for whatever reason they aren't DPSing to their potential.

And yeah. Part of the beauty of the EJ forums is that it's not the WoW forums. Please don't be lazy about your typing if you want people to respect your opinion here.

That's a good way of handling it, although I'd add all the "hits per second" together, then divide by the proc chance, so we're more looking at how to modify V rather than the formula as a whole.

I'll latex everything into one post shortly.

I wrote two questions on the previous page but I think they got spammed away a little bit. Is it possible to get some view from you guys on those questions. I'm waiting for the awnsers to move on with changing my shaman from pvp to pve and I'd value some input on those last two points from the elitist jerks community.

Thank you,

-Tulaugu-

This thread has a lot of debate between the two different "main" enhancement specs. There's quite a bit of info there if you're willing to wade through it... I recommend at least skimming. Quick summary, as I remember it, though: the Enh/elem build has the potential for more theoretical DPS, but all-but-prevents twisting, and the theoretical DPS advantage relies entirely on being able to shock every cooldown. Any delay shrinks the gap, and enough delay puts Enh/resto back on top. Enh/resto is the "safe" build, and I think still probably the most popular.

RED is difficult to model because it scales so much with crit and AP. I'd be impressed if anyone could give you any solid numbers that have meaning and aren't a complicated formula taking those two variables as input. Run Yo!'s sim at your current gear level with and without the RED effect.

Ah okay. Thank you. I'll dig throght the pages and find it.
If there are 2 specs that are considered best but different, wouldn't it be an idea to add that in the first/main post? That would help a lot and make it easyer for people in the future.

RED calculations are indeed very difficult, that's why I couldn't figure it out aswell probably. At the moment I'm calculating 30 ep's for a meta socket (T5 level). 24 for the agi and 6 for the 3% crit damage. Is that realistic? It would help me a lot for when I'm comparing things like T5 helm with Grimgrin Faceguard (ZA).

-Tulaugu-

[edit] it seems there was a nice response when I was writing this post. Thanks.

I'm not sure who you're comparing yourself to, but looking at the other level 70 enhancement shaman in your guild, Soilsan and Tsinka are in questing blues/greens, Zorgin is in Kara-level gear w/ hit gems, ap on bracers instead of strength, and strength enchant on weapons instead of exec/mongoose (or even crusader for the cheaper mats), and Mag is in level 60 gear (including Sulfuras). That leaves you and Ugdum. Ugdum is in full PvP gear. You're in 5/5 t6, DST, and full PvE epics, mostly BT-level, except for the badge cloak and a PvP trinket.

I don't know what Ugdum's PvE set looks like, but with that gear disparity, you had better be outdpsing all the enhancement shaman in your guild, even making a massive mistake like equipping a fast OH with FT.

6 EP for +3% crit damage? That's way low.

Use Yo's sim to calculate your EP values WITHOUT RED. Write down the DPS and the DPS per AP. Next, run the sim without calculating EP (cos it's faster), but add RED. Subtract your total DPS WITH RED from the DPS you wrote down without it. Divide that by your DPS per AP without. That's the EP of RED's crit effect.

I got 58 EP when I evaluated it for my own gear.

I have not seen anything yet that indicates that totem twisting would not be possible in 2.4. Can you point me to a source for this information?

It is still possible to do it on the PTRs, so one would assume will still be possible after 2.4. Unless blizz change it between now and then (possible).

Has this been posted yet? Flametongue now reduces healing effects by 50% for 4 seconds when applied. Toughness now reduces the duration of movement impairing effects on you by 10/20/30/40/50%.

It's being discussed on IRC as we speak.
The tooltips haven't been updated though.

Heres a summary Screenshot, the forum posts i found em in are below...


hope the FT is as interesting to you all as it is to me, ill have to dig into my bank for malchazeen. However the SR change is ish



WoW Forums -> *NEW* Huge buffs on the PTR
WoW Forums -> New change on PTR

Crappy change for shamanistic rage, I guess the devs felt it needed to be more balanced since we now have a much easier time escaping with instant ghostwolf and 50% duration on snares. An interesting bug with flametongue is it's actually increasing healing done to the target.

We must be come that which we most despise, in order to reach our ultimate form.

Totem GCD reduced to 1second.

on mmo

New changes are weird. The totem GCD thing I approve of, was REALLY really needed in PVP, 1.5 sec GCD meant 6-7 seconds lost on dropping the essential totems, I wont even go into time loss if you had a rogue on your back while doing it. Its going to be a lot easier now.

The shamanistic rage thing I don't like at all. For one, it was great as a damage reducer in PVE, since it had long duration and some good timing on it would help a lot in overall survivability (RoS phase3, just as an example). In PVP it was even better, I loved my "shieldwall" macro (1h+shield+sham rage), not to mention that if you waited for warlock to put all his nice DOTs on you, then use sham rage, together with resilience it would almost make his DOTs do half damage.

Also, its another problem for threat sensitive fights with the new changes to SR. Before, gaining full mana during 30 seconds of SR meant increasing your TPS around 10-15% during 30 seconds, now it will become a 15 second 30% increase (those numbers are a rough estimate). Couple of lucky WF procs and lucky SR procs - HUGE threat burst.

Dunno what to think of FT yet, I'll wait until I try it out in arena...

FT change should be quite good for arena's maybe bg's too. Gonna love that fast dagger from ZA since FT doesn't loose that much damage compared to WF when target isn't 3+ level mob. Plus we might have some extra raid utility if bosses/trash aren't immune to it. Also question remains whether it stacks with MS or not.

Imp. gw, toughness (not sure if this still is so good at all), where to get enough points for these? Shamanistic rage change blows but shorter time to gain mana is great and I suppose now SR being immune to dispel 30sec is way too long pvpwise.

I don't know if someone already said this. FT is bugged at the moment on PTR. Don't let people get you in duels or try this in BG's until you know it's fixed. Right now it's actually increasing heals by 50% on the target. I did an enhancement pvp spec and duelled a resto shaman for about 10 min before I finally just went oor of him and forced myself to forfeit the duel. It was misreable. He'd get off massive heals and go right back to full, it was BS. I realize it's a bug, just forwarning you to check it when you hit PTR for testing.

Instant GW + 50% slow duration decresed = OP fyi. You can kite anything except for a druid.

spamstring? they'll just have to put it on you twice as much; won't change much

I can't see kiting any class, because kiting requires range.

I can see escaping:
Priests
Rogues without cooldowns
Some locks
Paladins

And two of those were already on the list.

I am severely underwhelmed with our mobility changes. This half-assed way of going about our problems sucks. Just give us the stupid OP druid ability, or give us a stupid OP warrior ability, or a stupid OP rogue ability. Getting it halfsies is a poorly though out move that further increases our role as a chance based class.

With a warrior or a hunter, you know you're going to get that MS affect onto someone, due to ranged application or charge/intercept. With a shaman, it's still a crapshoot.