Shocktherapy:
1. YO's sim tell answer to you.
2. YO's sim tell answer to you.

Edit: too slow.

The number of daily questions in this thread that can be answered with "just read the OP and learn to use yo!'s simulator" are getting sickening. Funny thing is, often the same people complain that the thread is over 300 pages long.

In short, use yo's simulator, check it all out with different gear combinations and enough hours (dont check EP calculations if you're just checking what gives most dps) of hack and slash.

I personally did some runs of the new badge weapons and found that swapping e.g. the main hand for my talon of the phoenix as mh (changed to syphon since), rising tide as oh, netted me a drop in dps.

You can do similar checks of weapon enchants. Now shoo.

So if flurry is up, I have a smaller chance of WF proccing a PPM effect than if flurry is not up? I'm trying to make sure I get the gist of what you're saying. Also, is the PPM proc % recalculated when your weapon speed changes? Or will casting SR when you have 2.6 weapon speed lock in that %, even if you later - but during the duration of the buff - increase weapon speed, say, with flurry or bloodlust/heroism?

Okay, so I get that slow weapons = more procs from instant attacks, and that instant attacks don't figure in to the PPM's proc % calculation, but isn't there still a possibility that the PPM rate could be so high as to give more procs on faster weapons? Using extreme examples, if an item is 60 PPM, using a 60.0 speed weapon will generate 1 proc, and using a 1.0 speed weapon will generate 60 procs. Add in as many instant attacks as you like, and you'll still get 100% proc rates from both speeds of weapon.

I suppose it boils down to: What's the PPM of SR? it seems really high to me, I proc on almost every hit with my 2.6 speed weapons.

I do have a question for my Shaman's mainhand: Currently, I've been using Fool's Bane in my mainhand on my Shaman, but I do have a Bladefist sitting in my bags currently. Normally, I'd run a sim of both, but there's a problem - How would I evaluate the Bladefist's Haste buff? Especially in a 'stop and go' situation? Since it's a PPM buff, not a percentile, the more downtime, obviously, the more valuable. But if I wanted to test between the two for a Void Reaver fight, for example, how would I judge it?

I thought for a while to judge it as a 1 PPM buff with the 180 Haste rating and listing it as +30 on the sim (Despite what WoWhead comments say, I haven't ever gotten more than 2 proc's in a minute, and that's EXTREMELY rare), but I wans't sure if that really would be viable, seeing as how the 180 Haste for 10 seconds might not really equal 30 constant, due to how it would affect my weapon speed, and if Mongoose went off at the same time.

Can anyone offer me an idea on how to 'sort of' estimate the Bladefist in the sim? Or do you think it would be perfectly acceptable to put in the 30 haste rating instead, without worrying about the windfury timer? Thanks!

Back when haste was still new and exciting I spent some time testing proc uptimes with lots of haste+flurry/no haste+flurry/no haste no flurry, and found that it didn't seem to make any difference. I was using a single mongoose enchant and over a bunch of 30min runs with many combinations of gear I always had consistent uptime around 50%. I can't say with certainty that it works this way but it sure seems to. As to how often the chance to proc is adjusted I can't say, it would seem logical to do it for every swing but maybe that would be too expensive to calculate, someone would need to do a lot of testing to know for sure.

I have a question that i hope some of you might help me with.

I have two chestpieces and i cant figure out what to use.

I have the badge druid chestpiece Vestment of hibernation
I also have the mail chestpiece from Jan'alai Arrow-fall Chestguard

Do i pick haste over armor penetration? Or the other way around? With kings i can imagine the druid chestpiece is better. Also i realise that haste might have a negative influance on my windfury.

I was going to say that this was wrong, but then I recalled that I learned what I "know" from the WoW Forums, which are not the most reliable source of info. Nevertheless, here's what I think is true. It would be great if someone could issue an authoritative statement on this. (There's nothing in the OP I can see, certainly not in sec 3.1.3 = haste.)

PPM %ages DO NOT CHANGE when a weapon is hasted. That means that if you have a 1PPM weapon enchant, and you are hasted 30% by flurry and another 3.33% by passive haste, your will attack with your weapon 33% more often AND YOU WILL PROC 33% MORE OFTEN, or 1.33PPM.

There is another misconception a few posts down from the one I quoted, and I'm considerably more confident saying it's wrong. Discontinuous fights DO NOT increase the value of PPMs because they don't make procs more likely. If you hit a mob at time=1 sec with your 1PPM weapon, and then hit it again at time=61 seconds, you don't get a guaranteed proc. Each hit is totally random. (Except of course for the hidden CD, which makes the probability of procing 0 until it expires.)

I haven't followed this for a while, but I think the consensus from a few months ago in a thread here on EJ.com is that old world enchants act the way you describe (crusader is a good example) - they'll proc more with flurry. On the other hand, new world enchants (mongoose) seems to be based on current weapon speed, as opposed to item-listed weapon speed, so flurry wouldn't change mongoose's rate at all.

Man, I can't find that thread, so I can't be sure if my memory is right.

I have assurances from Boethius that the Theorycraft Think Tank (the wiki project here) will be opening within 1-2 weeks, at which point we'll shut down this thread and there can just be an "Enhancement Shaman (I don't know how to play) Help Me Please" thread for the random questions. Over in the wiki I have moderation rights on the article so I'll be able to delete anything not directly related to adding new info to the article itself.

ie, the article's discussion is to revolve around the article only not discussions in general.

Heck maybe someone can start the "I don't know how to play an Enhance Shaman" thread now just to get the repetitive questions out of this one.

Thanks much Pitbuller, that's the thread I was thinking of.

Mind me asking Malan, why can't this thread just be moderated? Sure there is a lot of helpful information here, but then again the same questions being asked over and over are tiring, but is it really a reason to create a new place for discussion?

About the "use Yo's simulator" thread, people will always be lazy, sadly, its easier to make a stupid post then actually try figuring something out on your own.

That's a very good point, but I think instead of including it as a separate thread, it should be part of the OP in the more general "How do I play an enh shaman" thread. It's a pretty straightforward tool, and there's a lot of FAQ-type information included below it if I remember correctly, but a couple quick paragraphs on how to use it or some bullets on what to include and how might help. Similarly, include links to sites like Loot Rank or MaxDPS (what do people even use these days? I just use the sim and personal judgment).

I know a lot of this is already in the OP here, but it requires people to dig through the quite daunting post. While a lot of us love it and probably could recite most of it from memory, more casual players who are just looking for gear advice end up turning their brains off by the time they get to the 3-dimensional plot in section 1.1.1. I don't blame them--that's not what they're here for. If we don't want to deal with those kinds of questions in this thread, having the How-To thread will help a lot, I think.

(Also, Malan, I have to say that splitting off the theory into another thread/area is possibly the best news I've heard in weeks. Cheers!)

The wiki has a special user group associated with it and has a special purpose - its not there to generate discussion, its there to serve as a resource for confirmed mechanics. I'm in the Editor user group there so I have pruning rights. The idea is that discussion about the article itself takes place in the wiki thread - "hey this is wrong" or "add a correction here" but that general discussion "I don't understand why I don't need +Hit!!!!!" takes place in the normal area of the forums.

[e] Shit. Someone a few days ago had posted something about "hey add this to the stormstrike section" I think it was rob, but I totally lost track of what I was supposed to add.

I've obtained perhaps 1/2 of my T6 set, and I'm having trouble pushing my DPS (minus searing totem) over 1400.

I noticed last time, I had a rather large % of white damage (51%). I don't know many shaman to push white damage so high, and I am not sure it's good.

Kwatee - WWS

Malan commented on his dropping crit while gearing T6, and I have dropped quite a bit and picked up a great deal of haste, but i never expected my white DPS to be > 50%.

Either way, a crit percentage < 40% after buffs for me is dismal, and my miss rate seems high as well.

I'm hoping to grab Illidan's helm, and S3 weapons soon. the sim shows them being massive upgrades, but I hate being stuck at this 1400 shelf.

If anyone does see something that I'm missing (other than the fact my helm is garbage, I had to socked my vengeful for PvP), shout. I'm aware I'm losing a bit of my shock DPS from my twisting, but i would think the agi would fill in that gap.

P.S. If your spring break starts today, have a good one!

I believe this is what you're looking for:
http://elitistjerks.com/662066-post7620.html

That's not true either since Heroic Strike is a yellow attack but can proc WF because its a next-attack special. If people think we're talking about Windfury Totem in this thread/article, they're dumb.

I was unaware that heroic strike could proc WF totem actually.

Egg on my face there.

Either way, to not know that stormstrike can proc WF probably equally ignorant.

And we have been known to talk about WF totem in this thread in response to rogues/warriors considering their theorycraft threads include very little information about how it functions.

It has been modified at least once.

1) Stats for an entire raid are no good, because it will include attacks on mobs that are not level 73. You can only look at bosses, and even still bosses that don't summon "lesser" mobs.

2) Turning mobs shouldn't have any effect on the dodge rate -- Parry doesn't push dodge off the attack table, it pushes hit off the attack table. Casting, on the other hand, will affect dodge percentages as casting mobs don't dodge while casting.

In conclusion, I need a good, long, tank n' spank fight. I have some stats from Nalorakk on Tuesday, I just need to up them to WWS.

This may be -- but I'm guessing, and it should be easy to test, that the PPM calculations don't take stormstrike or windfury into consideration, which means that with a relatively static number chances from WF and SS hits, a higher chance, and therefore a lower speed, would be preferred.

However, to your point: if PPM mechanics ARE based on current weapon speed (which, again, should be easy to test), then this means you'll return more mana from SR if you proc it when you aren't affected by a haste proc, e.g. Bloodlust, Berzerking, etc.

You can't trust simulations to answer these questions, so if anybody has any in-game data to confirm the mechanic I'd appreciate it.

I always considered the Bladefist to be a poor man's Drakefist Hammer, so just select the "Dragonstrike" main hand option. The difference is maybe 32 haste rating when the proc goes off, which shouldn't be more than 1 dps.

It's almost guaranteed you'll do more dps with the Bladefist main handed and the Fool's Bane off.

Only sort of true Toots.
The WWS tool for boss fights only lists your attacks per enemy, so even if the boss summons lesser adds... i.e. Solarian, you can still use that parse if you're using the WWS information.
I listed an entire raid's worth of detail to show that the raw number of hits, dodges, parries are available from the tool. So some adventurous type could go through their raid's backlog of boss fights and add up all the non-expertise wearer's values of hits/dodges/parries. This exercise is more than I have time for today, especially since our guild didn't pay our WWS bill and now we've got just one left online.

Your point numbered 2 is good. I totally forgot to mention those details.

Several people agree with TootsHepcat that bosses, while casting, can not dodge. Striking my contrary remarks.
Also, bosses aren't players. I'm fairly certain that even while they're casting they can dodge/parry/other mittigation. I don't have data that proves or disproves this. Sorry. I'm not 100% confident in this, so to the community take this last statement with a grain of salt.


Final note: Bosses that turn, get a bunch of parries from melee, which then allow the boss to gib your tank, what to do?
A rogue in our guild posited this little nugget of thought the other day. I forget if he mentioned reading it somewhere or not. Instead of tanking a boss in the following piss-poor standard stance: (M = melee, T=tank)
T-Boss-M - - - - - Ranged

In that scenario whenever the boss targets someone other than the tank, it necessarily turns towards melee and starts parry-gibbing tanks.

Stand like this.
M
__Boss - T (the underscores are just showing some space. I can use a preview button )



Ranged

If the post screwed over my textual spacing, basiscally the melee is to the side of the boss, still fighting it's back. The ranged off to the other side. The bulk of the time that the boss turns to target some non-tank, it's got at least a chance of not choosing a melee target and therefore will keep it's back to the melee. This should hopefully lower the amount of parries, and thus help your healer's out.

Perhaps my understanding is still flawed, but I think this isn't true based on the information here and in the proc mechancis thread linked above. If the PPM is constant independent of haste, the actual chance to proc on each hit scales down as your haste increases, to keep the PPM constant, resulting in the same total number of procs from your autoattack over the duration of the buff. Instant specials like WF and Stormstrike will still be based off of the original, unhasted weapon speed in either case, but you still can't SS more than once per 10 seconds, or WF more than once per 3. The only effect that could change the mana gained (unless I'm missing something else) is that in a hasted state there might be a small but real increase in the number of Windfuries gained as a result of less time between the WF CD expiring and the next melee attack, favoring hasted state ever so slightly.

Your textual diagram was pretty clear. It's a cool idea, and I'm pretty sure it could work, but the one failing of the text diagram is that it assumes 90 degree angles. I think, based on seeing a number of Backstab parries on some fights and some reading I've done elsewhere (I can try to find the source, but I honestly don't remember off the top of my head, so it may be completely irrelevant) that the parry arc is actually slightly over 180 degrees. Ideally, I think you'd want essentially a lopsided triangle, with the tank at one point, the melee at the short stubby second point, and the ranged on the farther 3rd point.

Of course, that assumes that the boss some sort of frontal cone ability. If not, might as well do:

Ranged


T
Boss
M

If you're feeling particularly sassy, you could even spread the melee out in an arc behind it, so if he turns to a melee on one side, almost half the rest of the melee also can't be parried. Cool idea, for fights that allow you to mess with positioning like this!

I think it's been pretty conclusively shown that this isn't the case, fights like reliquary and council would be much more painful if casting mobs could dodge. If a rogue ever tries to tell you his kick was dodged you can be pretty sure he was just late in kicking .