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Old 07/23/07, 1:29 PM   #776
Galeyra
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Der Mithrilorden (EU)
Originally Posted by Aett View Post
Anything that isn't a hit, crit, or glance, is considered a "Miss" for the total miss category. If you expand the melee attacks you can see a breakdown of the actual misses, dodges, and parries.

I've recently dropped about 90 hit rating and haven't looked back. Sadly some bad gearing choices were made before I tried this out.
Thanks, i didn't even know, you could expand the melee statistics. That clearifies most.

Another thing i notice everytime:
Most enhancement shamans got parried and partially blocked some of their attacks. I always thought, that you could avoid all parries/blocks as long as you stand behind the mob.
So, am i wrong or did they probably stand wrong?

Last edited by Galeyra : 07/23/07 at 1:54 PM.

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Old 07/23/07, 1:51 PM   #777
Aett
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Unaz View Post
The axe isn't intrinsically better unless you are an orc.

HOWEVER, you should most likely get the fist weapon main hand (not off hand, as it's fast). As I do not believe you can disarm fist weapons.

The flip side of that is you can't switch the Fist weapon to your Off Hand when you get a better Main Hand
Also be aware that the Axe hides the mongoose enchant. Not sure about the mace but I seem to remember someone saying that it doesn't.

Looks are totally like, 100 dps.

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Old 07/23/07, 2:14 PM   #778
Khlysti
Ithyphallic
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Originally Posted by Disquette View Post
Heya Khlysti, thanks for the great testing!

I personally think that lag has something to do with weapon hit times, so it might be a slightly better test to have something like 1.4 flurried speed versus 1.65 flurried speed.

In any case, those results are very interesting - thank you for them.
Yeah, I plan to run some more tests, with both more and less passive haste, just need a few more spare hours to do them in.

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Old 07/23/07, 2:36 PM   #779
Ruzia
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by Aett View Post
Also be aware that the Axe hides the mongoose enchant. Not sure about the mace but I seem to remember someone saying that it doesn't.

Looks are totally like, 100 dps.
LOL true. But is the mongoose enchant visual on the mace better than the axe and its own glow visual?

Can anyone parse the information and do some modeling to see which look adds more dps? =)

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Old 07/23/07, 2:44 PM   #780
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Ruzia View Post
LOL true. But is the mongoose enchant visual on the mace better than the axe and its own glow visual?

Can anyone parse the information and do some modeling to see which look adds more dps? =)
Looks > DPS =P

Right now, i plan on shooting for a Dragonstrike (working on Dragonmaw, guild is going to start SSC so vortex will soon be readily available) and a OH 2.6 Arena Season 2 Axe. In terms of gearing, it seems that Cyclone set is pretty lacking on the leggings, and the gloves somewhat. So i'm thinking about shooting for the Chest and Helm for the 2 piece set bonus (24/26.4 AP boost personally, varied boost to group). And im just wondering if there are better choices out there for these 2 slots that outweights the set bonus.

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Old 07/23/07, 3:30 PM   #781
Stander
Glass Joe
 
Stander's Avatar
 
Troll Shaman
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Aett View Post
Also be aware that the Axe hides the mongoose enchant. Not sure about the mace but I seem to remember someone saying that it doesn't.

Looks are totally like, 100 dps.
The axe does hide it, I cried inside.

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Old 07/23/07, 3:40 PM   #782
Lujaar
King Hippo
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
The T4 shoulders are probably the best piece of the set, especially if you're looking for a way to maintain 2pc T4 while working on T5. (The T5 shoulders suck.)

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Old 07/23/07, 3:51 PM   #783
Unaz
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mug'thol
Originally Posted by Lujaar View Post
The T4 shoulders are probably the best piece of the set, especially if you're looking for a way to maintain 2pc T4 while working on T5. (The T5 shoulders suck.)
I'm not sure where you get that T5 shoulders suck, they do come out as better according to the itemization values in this thread. And additionally, continuing on the curent topic of discussion, they are some of the best looking shoulders in the game.

You're also going to have access to the T5 shoulders as one of your first pieces of the set, so you'll be wearing those over T4 for a while until you get another piece.

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Old 07/23/07, 4:46 PM   #784
Aett
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Unaz View Post
I'm not sure where you get that T5 shoulders suck, they do come out as better according to the itemization values in this thread. And additionally, continuing on the curent topic of discussion, they are some of the best looking shoulders in the game.

You're also going to have access to the T5 shoulders as one of your first pieces of the set, so you'll be wearing those over T4 for a while until you get another piece.
I personally wouldn't break the two piece t4 if I wasn't picking up the four piece t5 from getting the shoulders. Too many of the item points were used up on MP5 to make it more than a very marginal upgrade over t4.

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Old 07/23/07, 4:49 PM   #785
Rob
Paid $25 To Raid
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Unaz View Post
HOWEVER, you should most likely get the fist weapon main hand (not off hand, as it's fast). As I do not believe you can disarm fist weapons.
Is this true?

(BTW, I was also disappointed to find the Cleaver's glow hides Mongoose as I like the Mongoose glow better, I'd go 2x Pummeler if I could do it over again... anyone able to confirm that Pummeler doesn't hide Mongoose?)

Originally Posted by Aett View Post
I personally wouldn't break the two piece t4 if I wasn't picking up the four piece t5 from getting the shoulders. Too many of the item points were used up on MP5 to make it more than a very marginal upgrade over t4.
I have to agree that it's not worth breaking T4 2-piece until you can get the T5 helm (assuming you're going from Cyclone Helm + shoulders or chest to Cataclysm helm + something else), since that's the only huge step up as far as DPS stats are concerned. However, I wouldn't say I'd go for four-piece T5 unless I had a real hard-on for mail items; too many of the T5 items are comparable to or worse than other easily available items (Magtheridon gloves, Void Reaver Greaves, Hydross or Karathress chest, Shoulderpads of the Stranger or Mantle of the Tireless Tracker).

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Old 07/23/07, 6:27 PM   #786
Ruzia
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Kil'Jaeden
I think this screenshot is double mongoose..

Mongoose on Pummeler, wowhead

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Old 07/23/07, 10:15 PM   #787
panny
Bald Bull
 
panny's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Vice View Post
Has anyone else tried out the Cystalforged Trinket from the Ogri'la Rep?

I think its a good trinket, but after reading all of this for the first time, Im really not sure how it stacks up to the other trinkets listed which I dont really have access to before the other melee classes in my raids

Im definately a sucker for a fast offhand as well...gotta change that asap.

Crystalforged Trinket - 1min CD.
Do a search, this question was posed 3 pages back.

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Old 07/24/07, 12:01 AM   #788
Ryley
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Is this true?
No it isn't, you can disarm fist weapons unfortunately.

Would rock if you couldn't be disarmed with a fist weapon though, have a reason to use one weapon over another. Heck, also be nice to have weapon masteries like rogues and warriors do =\

Last edited by Ryley : 07/24/07 at 12:30 AM.

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Old 07/24/07, 2:03 AM   #789
panny
Bald Bull
 
panny's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Barthilas
I think I prefer not having weapons specialization talents. Our suitable weapon choices are restricted enough. Maybe if there was a greater spread of items with the right speeds, WF damage was no longer tied to weapon speed or if we could use swords.

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Old 07/24/07, 5:59 AM   #790
Pearl
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Doomhammer (EU)
Has anyone considered the libram of rapidity as a possible helm/leg enchant?

It provides 10haste rating (1%).
The current helm enchant being 34atp/16hit and the leg enchant being 40atp/10crit (50/12), i would think that it is not worth putting on legs. But is it viable for helm enchant or not?

If haste rating is calculated as 1haste = 1atp then surely not, but it could provide a cheeky solution for those that are looking to optimize their haste rating.

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Old 07/24/07, 9:57 AM   #791
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
We have 1 haste rating = 0.9 AEP right now so the AP Enchant would win out on that one.

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Old 07/24/07, 11:23 AM   #792
Brum
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackhand
From the OP:
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Swing TimerIt has been confirmed that the Invigorated proc will reset your swing timers. Natures Swiftness will also reset your swing timer when you use up the buff for a cast.
The proc itself doesn't reset your swing timers. Using the buff to heal does. Wording seems ambiguous to me. Maybe change it to "...using the Invigorated buff...".

Carpe Viam

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Old 07/24/07, 12:47 PM   #793
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Righto changing that now.

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Old 07/24/07, 1:13 PM   #794
Luciellena
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Deathwing
I haven't had time to read this whole thread, so if this has been mentioned already please just point to the page.

Anyway, I am still a pretty big noob when it comes to playing my Shaman as I am not 70 yet, but I have heard of totem twisting involving WFT and GoA. I know how it works and all that, but I am more curious about it being more beneficial to the group than just dropping WFT and using your shocks.

Basically I am asking, does totem twisting make up for the loss of personal DPS?

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Old 07/24/07, 1:31 PM   #795
Aett
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
I did a quick search of the threat (advisable to do before posting questions =P )

I personally use twist and my group loves it, it has been discussed some in this thread. I haven't seen any conclusive math saying that group dps is higher with twisting, but I haven't seen anyone make the argument that it wouldn't be.

The primary arguments against it were pretty well stated by Malan here.

The mana consumption issue is addressed here.

EDIT: The totem twisting issue is worth of a section in the OP in my opinion. Just a quick list of the pros and cons of doing it. Also mention the possibility of this ability being removed by Blizzard in the future.

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Old 07/24/07, 1:34 PM   #796
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Well the foremost argument is that its clearly not intended by the developers since you're only supposed to have on totem per element (and therefore the effect of only one totem) down, and will likely be changed when they see widespread use of it.

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Old 07/24/07, 1:38 PM   #797
Aett
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Well the foremost argument is that its clearly not intended by the developers since you're only supposed to have on totem per element (and therefore the effect of only one totem) down, and will likely be changed when they see widespread use of it.
This argument really boils down to personal preference though. I didn't see many people not using WF 4/5 when that workaround was still there just because it was a bug.

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Old 07/24/07, 1:39 PM   #798
Lujaar
King Hippo
 
Lujaar's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
In a raid melee DPS group, yeah. GoA is probably a 5% DPS increase for each recipient. Your shocks are depending on gear, 10-15% of your DPS. 5% for 5 people > 15% for one person. You can even get away with some shocking if you twist WF1/GoA, which reduces the personal DPS loss.

There's no reason to totem-twist pre-raiding though, unless you find yourself in a 5-man group with 4 melee.

I hate twisting totems. On any fight where I have to do anything interesting it just doesn't seem worth it. Focusing on totems and constantly putting myself on global cooldown means I'm more likely to screw up whatever else I'm supposed to be doing. To me it's worth doing on long, stationary fights where melee just stands there hacking away (Tidewalker, Magtheridon, et al), but I can't see myself totem-twisting on a fight that requires mobility, interrupts, or spot healing.

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Old 07/24/07, 2:10 PM   #799
rava
sparks keep me warm
 
rava's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Luciellena View Post
I haven't had time to read this whole thread, so if this has been mentioned already please just point to the page.

Anyway, I am still a pretty big noob when it comes to playing my Shaman as I am not 70 yet, but I have heard of totem twisting involving WFT and GoA. I know how it works and all that, but I am more curious about it being more beneficial to the group than just dropping WFT and using your shocks.

Basically I am asking, does totem twisting make up for the loss of personal DPS?
On a typical fight for me I'm losing about 40k damage sacrificing shocking for totems. This number is going off the average 5 minute fight in BT/Hyjal, so somewhere along the lines of 45 shocks (these numbers are generous, I don't think I ever reach that # of shocks when I don't cycle my totems). 40k/5min = 130 dps, so you wonder if 5 group members getting 88 agi > 130 dps. My groups general make up is Rogue, Rogue, Rogue, Warrior, and myself. I suppose that this is where the confusion comes in, figuring out how to value that added agility. The way I go about it is checking out WWS to see what % of physical attacks make up their damage, divide their "new" DPS by the %, then multiply it by the added crit value of GA. Some rough numbers here, but I'm looking at 35 added dps per rogue (105), 32 dps for the warrior, and 42 dps for myself. 35+35+35+32+42 = 179 dps gain over 130 dps loss, nets you 49 raid dps. It's this level of gear as well, as it improves so will the yields of GA.

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Old 07/24/07, 2:16 PM   #800
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Or look at it as rogues get 1 AP per agility, so they get 88 AP and 14 AP = 1% DPS. 88/14 = 6 DPS.

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