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Old 03/24/08, 10:50 AM   #8026
swiftcaller
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Zenedar (EU)
I recon that some of his calculations are mistaken?!

I discovered while after mathing the calculations on the Earth shock - Flame shock cyclus that he has mistaken on the end facits, i found it to be:

((0.42×750+675)/10×1.26)+ ((0.67 ×750+797)/10×1.36)= 301.47200

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Old 03/24/08, 11:26 AM   #8027
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by swiftcaller View Post
I discovered while after mathing the calculations on the Earth shock - Flame shock cyclus that he has mistaken on the end facits, i found it to be:

((0.42×750+675)/10×1.26)+ ((0.67 ×750+797)/10×1.36)= 301.47200
Well you are apparently trying to use 10 second rotations or something, which isn't a miscalculation on my part at all.

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Old 03/24/08, 1:32 PM   #8028
aikiwoce
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Dawnbringer
Firstly, you have a great source of information here. I don't know if this is widely known, but our BM hunter said that his pet was getting windfury procs the other day. I'm trying to locate a WWS that shows this.

Also, I was always under the impression that potency/crusader was better than mongoose. Did this change recently? Which hands should Executioner/mongoose be placed on?

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Old 03/24/08, 1:48 PM   #8029
Delita
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Sargeras
I don't know where you'd get that impression.... and read the first post or search about info on where to put your enchants.

[e] spelling.

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Old 03/24/08, 1:55 PM   #8030
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by aikiwoce View Post
our BM hunter said that his pet was getting windfury procs the other day.
The buff is applied to a weapon so I'm pretty doubtful of this claim. Is it possible that he has a pet the same name as a rogue/warrior/retadin in your raid and that a bad merge of WWS data took place?

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Old 03/24/08, 2:12 PM   #8031
aikiwoce
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Dawnbringer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
The buff is applied to a weapon so I'm pretty doubtful of this claim. Is it possible that he has a pet the same name as a rogue/warrior/retadin in your raid and that a bad merge of WWS data took place?
I was unable to locate it in any recent WWS parse. It was quite a while back that our hunters commented on this. I'll see about trying to reproduce it

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Old 03/24/08, 2:14 PM   #8032
Rhaegal
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by aikiwoce View Post
Firstly, you have a great source of information here. I don't know if this is widely known, but our BM hunter said that his pet was getting windfury procs the other day. I'm trying to locate a WWS that shows this.
WWS report of a ZA run from last month where I was healing: Isurus - WWS

Charcaridon was in the tank/melee group with his pet wind serpent Isurus. You'll note that the pet is getting Battle Shout from Highwire, who is getting Windfury procs. Isurus never gains the Windfury proc buff.

I don't remember if we changed groups around much during the raid, but if you want to check, the other hunter pet in the raid was Journey (one of the cool spirit wolves from Dustwallow that you can't get anymore). He also did not gain any Windfury procs over the whole night.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

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Old 03/24/08, 8:22 PM   #8033
bestpike
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Dentarg (EU)
I'd like to point out a mistake made on the BT rep trinket. The actual equal AP isnt 137.5 for the simple reason that if the Stormstrike misses you get no buff. That means, at an 6.5% dodge of a boss, only 93.5% of your SS will hit the target, that is if you have zero expertise, which is normal in 2.3. That lowers the actual equal ap of this trinket to 137.5x0.935=128.5AP. With the new T6 and that awesome trinket from Magisters terrace we will be able to get some expertise though and raise the equal ap of this trinket.

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Old 03/25/08, 9:54 AM   #8034
Eltorronado
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Kael'thas
Haste after 2.4

Was wondering if stacking Haste would be advisable after 2.4. I was looking at gear and haste is becoming much more available. And I believe this can be done without sacrificing STG, STM. So, please let me know if this makes any sense at all..

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Old 03/25/08, 9:58 AM   #8035
Rhaegal
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Zul'Jin
Sim the gear you have. Sim again with the gear you're looking to get. If your DPS is higher in the second sim, it makes sense. If not, it doesn't. Haste isn't so magical that you can't model it in the sim to get the answer.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

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Old 03/25/08, 10:02 AM   #8036
SpottedCowz
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Anetheron
Perhaps there's some info buried in the last hundred and some odd pages, but I haven't found anything looking through a few pages here and there. I noticed that the Yo! Calculator has a slot on the trinket section for HoJ out of BRD, but I don't see EP values for it anywhere. I'm actually not entirely certain how the math on that would work. If someone could give me a rough idea of where to start for a formula to weight that, I'd appreciate it.

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Old 03/25/08, 10:11 AM   #8037
Rhaegal
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Zul'Jin
Try using the "Search this thread" option. I just ran a search for "Hand of Justice" and one of the first hits was:
Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I

I don't think anyone's come up with an "exact" EP value for it (if such a thing is even possible, as it would scale with gear). Mostly because it's bad. As the person a couple posts down from what I linked implied, there are Outlands quest reward greens that are better.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

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Old 03/25/08, 10:44 AM   #8038
Devnex
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Stormreaver
2.4 is finally here, in preparation I've readied:
A regular 5 man for Heroic MT for [Shard of Contempt]
8 primal mights for [Gloves of Immortal Dusk]
and mongoose mats for [Mounting Vengeance]

Am I missing anything?

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Old 03/25/08, 10:52 AM   #8039
Zula
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Crushridge (EU)
Hello, according to the site loot rank and yo's simulator stats, there will be(in the 2.4) no good MAIL leggins: [] are a less improvement than [] because of the hit rating. So it' sure we have to wear leather to max dps output? is this the way, even for the []

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Old 03/25/08, 11:01 AM   #8040
Brum
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Tornhoof View Post
So the simplified version (with corrected wf cooldown) looks like:
flurry := 1 - (1- crit)^(3+ 2 * dodge * (1 - (1-wfprocprob)^(aatimefor3/3)) + 2*dodge*(aatimefor3/10));
Heya Tornhoof. I plugged the equation into 20 BT/Hyjal fights and came out with 6% greater flurry uptime than predicted. Fight data here

I used dodge and crit rates from each fight, 20% wf proc rate, 2.6/2.8 weaps for an aatimefor3 of 4.05. Then averaged the differences between actual and predicted flurry uptimes (weighted by # of swings) across all the fights. Link here to the .xls with the calcs

On another note, with 0% dodge and 37% crit, the equation predicts 75% uptime. Over an hour on Servants flurry meter showed 90% uptime with 0% dodge, 37% crit, 2% white miss, SS spam, 2.6/2.8 weaps

Carpe Viam

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Old 03/25/08, 11:30 AM   #8041
Aximous
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by Devnex View Post
2.4 is finally here, in preparation I've readied:
A regular 5 man for Heroic MT for [Shard of Contempt]
8 primal mights for [Gloves of Immortal Dusk]
and mongoose mats for [Mounting Vengeance]

Am I missing anything?
Mats for [Design: Hard Khorium Band]

Originally Posted by Zula View Post
Hello, according to the site loot rank and yo's simulator stats, there will be(in the 2.4) no good MAIL leggins: [Leggings of the Pursuit] are a less improvement than [Trousers of the Scryers' Retainer] because of the hit rating. So it' sure we have to wear leather to max dps output? is this the way, even for the [Tunic of the Dark Hour]
You should be wearing the one that has the most ep value no matter of the stats on it. This has been brought up several times that hit rating isn't that important. You have the ep value for hit rating it is just as important as any other stat, you have your ep values from the sim, agree with those.

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Old 03/25/08, 12:09 PM   #8042
Mox
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Aximous View Post
Using my EP values I get that ring as 168.38 points, compared to 166.42 for Illidan ring/156.42 for ZA ring. Think if the guild/raid is fighting over sunmotes It'd be better to just wait till much later on for a minor upgrade like that. Oh the note of rings the [Band of Ruinous Delight] comes out at 186.69 and is pretty amazing!

Still waiting for M'uru loot though... theres zero MHs yet and no mail dps pieces (except the good shoulders from twins). Currently thanking the lord im JCing cause the [Design: Hard Khorium Choker] beats everything else hands down.

[e] With the standard set of raid debuffs/buffs, my gear/spec I get values significantly different to the "t6-end game" values given in OP, you might want to re-run them due to changes in the sim since then. These were 3x 15000 hours then averaged.

1 AP
1.9 Crit
1.78 Hit
1.96 Haste
0.37 Armor Pen
2.2 Str
1.85 Agility
3.33 Expertise

Last edited by Mox : 03/25/08 at 3:02 PM. Reason: EP values

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Old 03/25/08, 1:07 PM   #8043
 Glayde
Don Flamenco
 
Glayde's Avatar
 
Troll Druid
 
Thrall
I know it's not interactive for your particular own EP numbers but:

Static Excel with most new gear based on the t6 EP ratings in the first post.
Trinkets aren't done properly, and no socket bonuses are counted, and gems are counted socketed as color. Notes are also incomplete.
But it gives you a general idea looking at the new gear. I may have missed something, let me know.

(I generated the table from a microsoft access database and made it look readable by hand)

Strength = 2.2 EP
Agility = 1.69 EP
Crit Rating = 1.74 EP
Hit Rating = 1.69
Haste Rating = 1.82
Attack Power = 1
Armor Penetration = 0.35 EP
Expertise Rating = 3.18 (Yo's Simulator recently changed to give EP weights to Expertise Rating)
Used weem's original (but now slightly incomplete) spreadsheet for a lot of the initial data.
I'm sure we're all feening for his new interactive!

http://webuser.bus.umich.edu/tle/t6ep_loot.xls

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Old 03/25/08, 2:57 PM   #8044
Brum
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Glayde View Post
I may have missed something, let me know.
...
http://webuser.bus.umich.edu/tle/t6ep_loot.xls
Here ya go:
[Mantle of the Golden Forest]
[Starstalker Legguards]

You might like to add notes for the expertise items; about becoming less valuable when you hit 6.5% antidodge (or whatever the actual % is).

Carpe Viam

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Old 03/25/08, 4:38 PM   #8045
Lumpeh
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Smolderthorn
I attempted to send you a message Malan but I'm unsure if it sent so I'll repost it here.

In Section 4.1.1 Totem Twisting, under the Cons of the art, you state that

The mana cost of refreshing 2 totems every 9 seconds while Stormstriking is roughly 14,000 mana every 2 minutes. This will limit the ability to use shocks, and requires very careful timing of Shamanistic Rage, may require JoW from a paladin, and definitely requires 5 points in Totemic Mastery.
This would actually require you to have 5 Points in Totemic Focus, not Totemic Mastery as Totemic Mastery is a single point part of the Resto tree that increases the range of your totems to thirty yards. Totemic Focus is the part of the Resto tree that reduces the mana cost of your totems by 25%.

Just thought I should point that out.

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Old 03/25/08, 5:18 PM   #8046
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Yes I got it, I'll fix that later.

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Old 03/25/08, 5:39 PM   #8047
qillie
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Originally Posted by bestpike View Post
I'd like to point out a mistake made on the BT rep trinket. The actual equal AP isnt 137.5 for the simple reason that if the Stormstrike misses you get no buff. That means, at an 6.5% dodge of a boss, only 93.5% of your SS will hit the target, that is if you have zero expertise, which is normal in 2.3. That lowers the actual equal ap of this trinket to 137.5x0.935=128.5AP. With the new T6 and that awesome trinket from Magisters terrace we will be able to get some expertise though and raise the equal ap of this trinket.
Also there is the the chance you dont Stormstrike every 10 sec exactly for example Lag - Global cd.
is this taken into the calculation?

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Old 03/25/08, 6:30 PM   #8048
Tornhoof
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Die Silberne Hand (EU)
Originally Posted by Brum View Post
Heya Tornhoof. I plugged the equation into 20 BT/Hyjal fights and came out with 6% greater flurry uptime than predicted. Fight data here

I used dodge and crit rates from each fight, 20% wf proc rate, 2.6/2.8 weaps for an aatimefor3 of 4.05. Then averaged the differences between actual and predicted flurry uptimes (weighted by # of swings) across all the fights. Link here to the .xls with the calcs

On another note, with 0% dodge and 37% crit, the equation predicts 75% uptime. Over an hour on Servants flurry meter showed 90% uptime with 0% dodge, 37% crit, 2% white miss, SS spam, 2.6/2.8 weaps
Ah yes, nice data there:

A few notes: aatimefor3 needs the hasted speed of both weapons (e.g. for 2.8/2.6 with flurry only) it is ((2.8+2.6)/(1.3*4))*3

The wf proc rate is 36% (we assume one possible wf proc which could be done by either hand)

and your dodge should be 1-dodge (i assumed that a few lines above the calc for simplicity)

So for example:

=1 - (1- B18)^(3+ 2 * (1-B19) * (1 - (1-0,36)^(B28/3)) + 2*B19*(B28/10))

whith b28 being the new flurried aatimefor3.

I editited a few entries and your avg weighted diff is now 0.319


Same thing on your servants tests with the corrected equation (especially the dodge) the uptime is 87%

You actually are a bit more hasted for the servants, due to faster attack speed after parry.

Last edited by Tornhoof : 03/25/08 at 6:42 PM.


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Old 03/25/08, 9:08 PM   #8049
bestpike
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Dentarg (EU)
Originally Posted by qillie View Post
Also there is the the chance you dont Stormstrike every 10 sec exactly for example Lag - Global cd.
is this taken into the calculation?
Truth is i havent thought of that. I guess this lower's the trinket's value even more.

A similar phenomenon also happens for example for "use" trinkets (like Bloodlust brooch). Its assumed that they are used on cooldown, and i think in reality this never happens. we always forget to use them sometime, making trinkets that dont demand player action higher in value. imo.

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Old 03/25/08, 10:19 PM   #8050
Joy
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Mage
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by bestpike View Post
Truth is i havent thought of that. I guess this lower's the trinket's value even more.

A similar phenomenon also happens for example for "use" trinkets (like Bloodlust brooch). Its assumed that they are used on cooldown, and i think in reality this never happens. we always forget to use them sometime, making trinkets that dont demand player action higher in value. imo.

Or you can be lazy like me and bind it to Stormstrike. ( I also have a manual stormstrike button that I use for the first couple to wait for a threat gap before bloodlusting)

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