Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 323

vikinghelmet · 03/25/08, 11:23 PM

I had heard that in 2.4 casting totems reset the swing timer as a discouragement to totem-twisting, but now I can't find where I read it. I tried to test it live but I haven't been able to get it conclusively. Does anyone know the truth of this? Also, if it is true, does this invalidate twisting or is it still feasible?

Thanks.

aikiwoce · 03/25/08, 11:37 PM

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...istsoffury.jpg

New enhancement shaman Hyjal Trash drop weapon set. *note the 1.5spd off-hand.

Rob · 03/25/08, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by vikinghelmet

I had heard that in 2.4 casting totems reset the swing timer as a discouragement to totem-twisting, but now I can't find where I read it. I tried to test it live but I haven't been able to get it conclusively. Does anyone know the truth of this? Also, if it is true, does this invalidate twisting or is it still feasible?

Can you post a citation for this claim?

Anyway, twisting would *probably* still be feasible, but it would require closely monitoring your swing timers. Wait until swing goes off, drop WFT. Wait until swing goes off, drop GoA. It would definitely raise the effort level even farther than it already is, and would probably be enough to make me quit twisting, personally.

Of course it would also be a significant PvP nerf: no more dropping Grounding or Earthbind if you're in range of somebody. For that reason I hope and doubt that this change occurred.

Originally Posted by aikiwoce

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...istsoffury.jpg

New enhancement shaman Hyjal Trash drop weapon set. *note the 1.5spd off-hand.

Hmm, so one instance too late and a worthless offhand. Bleh.

+3.7DPS * 9.03 EP/DPS = +33.411 EP from DPS
-14 AP
-15 hit rating = ~ - 24 EP
20 agi vs 19 crit rating = wash

Yeah, so it's actually worse than [Talon of the Phoenix] except for the stam upgrade. (And the proc but the OH is worthless...) What a joke!

Morelis · 03/26/08, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by aikiwoce

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...istsoffury.jpg

New enhancement shaman Hyjal Trash drop weapon set. *note the 1.5spd off-hand.

Seeing that really makes me curious as to how their itemization team works, you'd figure there would be some sort of sanity check along the way that would catch things like this. At the very least you'd wonder why those kinds of mistakes would still be happening in the first place, how hard could it be to draft up a set of rough guidelines when designing items for each class?

• frmorrison · 03/26/08, 12:22 AM

The set is decent for a Rogue (since they need a fast off-hand, and good fist weapons are rare), but I would use the MH over Talon even if it was lower dps just for looks alone.

faight · 03/26/08, 12:38 AM

On the topic of twisting, I was playing with the new totem UI and I was overjoyed at being able to kill a single totem. Is there a text command for being able to do this that could be inserted in to macros for twisting to get back mana? I swear I saw it posted before, but I couldn't find it.

Killme888 · 03/26/08, 12:56 AM

That was before when destroying single totems gave back mana, it doesn't anymore, unless it's not recorded in the combat logs.

ChaguraED · 03/26/08, 1:07 AM

I tested destroying a single totem while under 0 regen/5 and within the 5 second rule. Confirmed that no mana is returned from destroying a single totem. Ah well.

faight · 03/26/08, 1:11 AM

Oh, nevermind then, I noticed that mana is returned seperately for each totem killed with Totemic Recall, but I didn't really sit down to test out the UI other than saying "Hey look now I can kill searing totem when I need to without killing all my other totems".

Fearlezz · 03/26/08, 1:15 AM

Still can't decide what word to use when looking at the OH speed, ironic or moronic. And they call it a "Shaman set". A "SHAMAN set". Geez...

Bragor · 03/26/08, 1:23 AM

Seems we got our new Bling Bling weapons.

Same case for serious BT/MH Raiding enhancement shamans with tier 6 enhancement.. More Bling Bling

seminarca · 03/26/08, 1:25 AM

Originally Posted by Fearlezz

Still can't decide what word to use when looking at the OH speed, ironic or moronic. And they call it a "Shaman set". A "SHAMAN set". Geez...

Who is "they"? And when/where has this been referred to as a "Shaman set"? All I see is people reacting to the graphics and auto-assuming it's meant for Shamans whereas it's entirely possible Blizzard's intent was to plug the T6 level PvE Fist Weapon itemization hole for Rogues. Whether that's an itemization hole that merits plugging is another question, but really ..

Margot · 03/26/08, 2:08 AM

They = mmo-champion.com, apparently. I guess reporting on WoW stuff isn't a good motivator to understand game mechanics.

Atren · 03/26/08, 7:08 AM

Not just they, those fist graphics were first associated with shaman by Blizzard ages ago. Not sure if it was Blizzcon or wherever, but i do remember them being *shaman*. I am very furious about this to be honest, who in the blazes came up with that offhand?

Zack · 03/26/08, 8:43 AM

Hi guys, i'm new and i'm not english so sorry for my bad english.

I want know the best skill rotation with totem twisting and without it after the patch 2.4(totem gcd 1 sec from 1.5)

(shock cooldown 6 sec., no talent for 5 sec.)

Now i always used : Flame Shock - SS - Earth Shock - repeat again and again and again and refresh windfury when needed but i want maximize my dps.

Thx.

• Glayde · 03/26/08, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by vikinghelmet

I had heard that in 2.4 casting totems reset the swing timer as a discouragement to totem-twisting, but now I can't find where I read it. I tried to test it live but I haven't been able to get it conclusively. Does anyone know the truth of this? Also, if it is true, does this invalidate twisting or is it still feasible?

Thanks.

You _heard_ this somewhere? How can you not test this conclusively live?

3/26 08:32:17.087 SWING_DAMAGE,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0xF430004820003B24,"Warp Stalker",0x10a48,934,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
3/26 08:32:18.040 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x8000000 0,25528,"Strength of Earth Totem",0x8
3/26 08:32:18.150 SPELL_SUMMON,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0xF130003C7701C7CB,"Strength of Earth Totem VI",0xa28,25528,"Strength of Earth Totem",0x8
3/26 08:32:19.869 SWING_DAMAGE,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0xF430004820003B24,"Warp Stalker",0x10a48,1886,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
3/26 08:32:20.962 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x8000000 0,25528,"Strength of Earth Totem",0x8
3/26 08:32:22.681 SWING_DAMAGE,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0xF430004820003B24,"Warp Stalker",0x10a48,864,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
3/26 08:32:24.040 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x8000000 0,25528,"Strength of Earth Totem",0x8
3/26 08:32:24.040 SPELL_SUMMON,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0xF130003C7701C7FA,"Strength of Earth Totem VI",0xa28,25528,"Strength of Earth Totem",0x8
3/26 08:32:25.509 SWING_DAMAGE,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0xF430004820003B24,"Warp Stalker",0x10a48,888,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
3/26 08:32:25.681 PARTY_KILL,0x0000000000181F26,"Glayde",0x511,0xF430004820003B24,"Warp Stalker",0x10a48
3/26 08:32:26.306 UNIT_DIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0xF430004820003B24,"Warp Stalker",0x10a48

swings at 17.08 19.86, 22.68 and 25.51 (using a slow two hander), dropping totems between swings.

Piestein · 03/26/08, 1:59 PM

2nd edit: I think the original post got edited quite close to when I was posting and the post was about the shard of Contempt I just got.

I got a question tho. Obviously, DST and shard are top 2(btw the proc of the shard is REALLY NICE- the ppm is like the other ones, as far as I've noticed). But are they a good combo or is it better to have "on use" trink , like berserker's call?

Justin3563 · 03/26/08, 2:08 PM

can I get any output on this, it isn't written in the guide(I checked :P ).

[Hourglass of the Unraveller]

[Shard of Contempt]

[Shard of Contempt] from heroic Magister's Terrace will be as good, or better than, the DST.

check again

top section of first page. DST is (before 2.4) the best Enhancement shaman trinket with the most EP points. so it being as good or better than DST would rank it in the top 3 at least.

Justin3563 · 03/26/08, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by Piestein

2nd edit: I think the original post got edited quite close to when I was posting and the post was about the shard of Contempt I just got.

I got a question tho. Obviously, DST and shard are top 2(btw the proc of the shard is REALLY NICE- the ppm is like the other ones, as far as I've noticed). But are they a good combo or is it better to have "on use" trink , like berserker's call?

with this and your tier 6 boots, belt, and writs from sunwell you will reach the expertise cap which is huge! You can use any other trinket you like just as long as the one in question is one of them :P

vikinghelmet · 03/26/08, 3:17 PM

The reason I haven't tested the question myself is because my swingtimer mod has been acting up and there hasn't been a 2.4 update yet.

I've been looking for the quote for some time now but I can't seem to find it. I could have sworn that I saw it on this forum but it seems I was wrong.

Sorry for wasting your time.

Unaz · 03/26/08, 3:54 PM

Originally Posted by Joy

Or you can be lazy like me and bind it to Stormstrike. ( I also have a manual stormstrike button that I use for the first couple to wait for a threat gap before bloodlusting)

Try this out, will save you a keybind or four:

/startattack
/use [modifier:alt] Medallion of the Horde
/use [modifier:shift] Master Healthstone
/cast [modifier:ctrl] Bloodlust
/cast Stormstrike

Mash butan for stormstrike/attacking in general, hit ctrl when you want to Bloodlust.

And somewhat related (probably don't need the second two stopcasting lines, but doesn't hurt):

/stopcasting
/cast [nomodifier] Blood Fury
/stopcasting
/cast Shamanistic Rage
/stopcasting
/use Bloodlust Brooch

Devnex · 03/26/08, 4:13 PM

Color me entirely unimpressed by the new Shamanistic Rage. In raid situations it's a guaranteed full mana bar but I find I waste most of the duration when grinding running between mobs and end up with less than half a bar every two minutes.

Unaz · 03/26/08, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Devnex

Color me entirely unimpressed by the new Shamanistic Rage. In raid situations it's a guaranteed full mana bar but I find I waste most of the duration when grinding running between mobs and end up with less than half a bar every two minutes.

Last night we ran about half of BT while people were getting used to changes, and I was constantly going near OOM without even doing anything like twisting. I can sustain it with the occasional combat pot, but this wasn't a concern before at all. This may be intentional on Blizzard's part though, who knows.

I think if I timed it a bit better with my mana bar it would have been fine, but again. this wasn't something that was a concern prior to 2.4.

Dukanull · 03/26/08, 5:19 PM

Didn't get to raid too long last night due to crashing instance servers (QQ) but we did get within a trash pull of kalec and I was not having any problems with mana. I'm like the ADD type who never drinks either, seemed to take 5-6 swings for a full mana bar if I popped zerker's or blood fury during SR. This wass also sustaining a full twisting rotation. I was always stressed for mana on trash before due to targets dying to fast after i SR, no JoW, etc.

Devnex · 03/26/08, 5:21 PM

Well yes, any creature that lives as long as trash in Sunwell is fine for regenerating mana. I notice the pinch more when I'm questing/grinding. Travel time KILLS my regen.