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Old 03/31/08, 12:11 PM   #8201
Bargle
Glass Joe
 
Bargle's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Gorefiend
Here's a log from Illidari Council last night w/ Shard of Contempt.
Wow Web Stats

14 Shard procs (2 shaman heroisms) for ~40.8% uptime.
Kyawwin also had 14 shard procs (1 shaman heroism) for ~41.1% uptime.

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Old 03/31/08, 12:51 PM   #8202
frozndevl
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Cho'gall
This is a question or two about comparing the results of Yo!'s sim to actual in game results, and yes, I do understand that the simulator is best case scenario which never quite happens. Using the sim, I get somewhere around 1250-1300dps in my results; I have just been accepting the default buffs while changing to Agility Elixirs, no pots, and adding 1 drum rotation. My paperdoll is a bit messed up as I was wearing all my Karazhan and Zul'Aman gear for kicks when I logged out last night. Off the top of my head I've got unbuffed stats of

1490ap
29.2% crit
110 hit rating
7% haste
252 Armor Penetration
S1 Gladiator Axes with Mongoose
Hourglass, Abacus for trinkets
~240str and ~230agil

I've only recently started 25-mans and have successfully run Gruul, Mag (pre- and post- nerf), and an unsuccesful Void Reaver last week. In these fights the highest sustained DPS I've been able to manage is 800. I'm a clicker on Mag and melee is always running in and out on VR, so I can see why those would be lower. My shock rotation is a bit off as it is reflect to still use ES whenever cooldown is up, and I am twisting which slows down some usage of other abilities. I am also holding off on my SS if it is within 2-3 seconds.

We are going to give Lurker a try this week and...

1) Is this sort of dropoff from sim to reality customary?
2) Is lurker a better indicator or not because of the adds?
3) Is my sim result just completely off?

Last edited by frozndevl : 03/31/08 at 12:59 PM.

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Old 03/31/08, 12:53 PM   #8203
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
/cast [nostance] Ghost Wolf
Spammable macro.
Its only use ghost wolf if you are regualar form. In ghost wolf form it do nothing.
No wasted mana or gCD and never accident cancel form.
I use it when running between trash mobs in sunwell or when I have to catch portal.
By the way its reset swing timer.

I would say that 0/45/16 with improved ghost wolf is new cookie cutter spec.



Edit: Thanks Bren, /cast [nostance, outdoors] Ghost Wolf
I didnt want to add all modiefier that I use myself. I just wanted it look simple.
Same button can also be your land/fly mount button but this is other section stuff.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 03/31/08 at 2:07 PM.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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Old 03/31/08, 1:05 PM   #8204
Mindrila
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Aegwynn (EU)
Well doing MH yesterday with instant ghostwolf was really nice, running after all those adds becomes quite enjoyable.
Also running away with doom is so easy I got boered waiting for death.

For me it's really a nice skill and well 2% decreased dodge rate won't kill me that often.

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Old 03/31/08, 1:14 PM   #8205
ChaguraED
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Emerald Dream
Yo!'s Sim - Darkmoon Card: Crusade

Quick question,

With the addition of Darkmoon Card: Crusade to Yo!'s Sim, should I not be adding it's 120AP to my base stats now?

I tested with and without and it appears to add the 120AP on it's own now, I just wanted to confirm.

Thanks

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Old 03/31/08, 1:22 PM   #8206
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
That's correct. Note however that if you decide to test something like Shard of Contempt, that you need to add the expertise to the stats section, as that is not accounted for when you add it as a trinket. (I found out when I tried replacing a trinket with the shard and my DPS shot down by 30-40 dps)

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Old 03/31/08, 1:25 PM   #8207
Bren
Glass Joe
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
/cast [nostance] Ghost Wolf
Spammable macro.
Its only use ghost wolf if you are regualar form. In ghost wolf form it do nothing.
No wasted mana or gCD and never accident cancel form.
I use it when running between trash mobs in sunwell or when I have to catch portal.
By the way its reset swing timer.

I would say that 0/45/16 with improved ghost wolf is new cookie cutter spec.
/cast [nostance, outdoors] Ghost Wolf
get's rid of the error message when indoors.

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Old 03/31/08, 6:49 PM   #8208
Piestein
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Shadowsong (EU)
Wonderful , but can we confirm that it is better then the 2% Avoidance? I mean, it should be for encounters where you got to run a lot: Mount Hyjal, Black Temple, Sunwell(haven't been there yet, but soon will be). And 2 % avoidance always seemed to me like a filler : you shouldn't get attacked anyways in most cases and even if you do, those 2% will do very little to save you.

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Old 03/31/08, 7:28 PM   #8209
Rob
Paid $25 To Raid
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Blade
2% dodge always has been a filler, just to dodge that cleave when you were lined up wrong or dodge that hit when somebody pulled aggro an extra 1 out of 50 times.

Imp Ghost Wolf is easily worth taking for the PvP and non-raid PvE utility IMO.

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Old 03/31/08, 7:33 PM   #8210
Strygwyr
Banned
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Lightbringer
Can anyone please explain why it is that Yo's simulator gives me such a low value for expertise now that i have 18 expertise rating on each hand? maybe a rather simple question, but it is puzzling me.

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Old 03/31/08, 8:49 PM   #8211
Vissi
Lost and Confused
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer
Originally Posted by Strygwyr View Post
Can anyone please explain why it is that Yo's simulator gives me such a low value for expertise now that i have 18 expertise rating on each hand? maybe a rather simple question, but it is puzzling me.
Because you are closer to the Expertise cap.

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Old 03/31/08, 9:13 PM   #8212
Meso
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Laughing Skull (EU)
Originally Posted by Strygwyr View Post
Can anyone please explain why it is that Yo's simulator gives me such a low value for expertise now that i have 18 expertise rating on each hand? maybe a rather simple question, but it is puzzling me.
Same thing happened to me. After getting Shard of Contempt and the T6 belt my Shoulderpads of the Stranger went down to 181.25 AEP so I could finally replace them with my banked Mantle of Darkness (198.28 AEP).

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Old 03/31/08, 9:21 PM   #8213
Rob
Paid $25 To Raid
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Meso View Post
Same thing happened to me. After getting Shard of Contempt and the T6 belt my Shoulderpads of the Stranger went down to 181.25 AEP so I could finally replace them with my banked Mantle of Darkness (198.28 AEP).
I hope you tried running the two gear combos against each other and comparing DPS, because if I saw a sharp drop in the EP of expertise I'd wonder if the sim was hitting the cap when it calculated the value of additional expertise.

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Old 03/31/08, 9:56 PM   #8214
Meso
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Laughing Skull (EU)
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
I hope you tried running the two gear combos against each other and comparing DPS, because if I saw a sharp drop in the EP of expertise I'd wonder if the sim was hitting the cap when it calculated the value of additional expertise.
Ok, I should have done that. I got 1718 dps with Shoulderpads of the Stranger and 1716 dps with Mantle of Darkness, but its still tempting to use them just to get rid of those horrible looking Shoulderpads of the Stranger. >>

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Old 03/31/08, 11:00 PM   #8215
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
Binkenstein's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Expertise is like hit in a way.

It's useful up until the "cap", then any extra points will be worthless. So if you have a potential dps gain from attaining the expertise cap of X, and require Y rating to get there (I don't know the exact figure) as we go over Y each additional rating (A) will reduce the EP value for expertise rating (Z)

\frac {X}{Y+A}\ = Z


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Old 03/31/08, 11:38 PM   #8216
Undernet01
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Gilneas
Wait a sec,

The idea is that an item with a 2.6 makes a Windfury proc more than with a fast weapon, such as a Dagger... But then we get into the talk about Haste Rating... Haste Rating changes the Weapon Speed, giving you a faster weapon... Though wouldn't that make your Windfury's Proc Rate considerably less?

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Old 03/31/08, 11:56 PM   #8217
Illundai
Bald Bull
 
Illundai's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Talnivarr (EU)
Originally Posted by Undernet01 View Post
Wait a sec,

The idea is that an item with a 2.6 makes a Windfury proc more than with a fast weapon, such as a Dagger... But then we get into the talk about Haste Rating... Haste Rating changes the Weapon Speed, giving you a faster weapon... Though wouldn't that make your Windfury's Proc Rate considerably less?
The increase in white damage evens it out.

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Old 04/01/08, 4:58 AM   #8218
panta
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Burning Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Illundai View Post
The increase in white damage evens it out.
Though that makes me wonder a bit. We don't need +hit rating that much simply because our white dmg makes out about 40-45% of our overall dmg, the rest of it is allready hit capped by talents (not counting shocks ofc). When enh shaman starts to boost his haste rating, starts to loose some wf procs and the percentage of white swings increases respectively. Is my logic right when i say: "the more haste rating i have, the more plus hit i'd need to compensate the increase of contribution of white swings in overall dmg". That kind of gets me to the point where i wonder if it is that much of a needed stat at all.

Of course i don't have a testing background behind this and i would just like to know whether i'm thinking right.

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Old 04/01/08, 5:21 AM   #8219
falonub
Banned
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by panta View Post
Though that makes me wonder a bit. We don't need +hit rating that much simply because our white dmg makes out about 40-45% of our overall dmg, the rest of it is allready hit capped by talents (not counting shocks ofc). When enh shaman starts to boost his haste rating, starts to loose some wf procs and the percentage of white swings increases respectively. Is my logic right when i say: "the more haste rating i have, the more plus hit i'd need to compensate the increase of contribution of white swings in overall dmg". That kind of gets me to the point where i wonder if it is that much of a needed stat at all.

Of course i don't have a testing background behind this and i would just like to know whether i'm thinking right.
The more haste you have, the higher the AEP value of your hit rating will become. That is my remembering from reading replies awhile back.

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Old 04/01/08, 5:27 AM   #8220
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
Thats why we have Yo's Sim and ep values. Don't try manually calculate what is good or not. Check it with sim in every case.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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Old 04/01/08, 6:30 AM   #8221
Tana Umaga
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
C'Thun (EU)
Okay, what happened to me yesterday...

I saw a lot of misses on my WF attacks, something that didn´t happen before... (or at least I wasn´t aware). As I have 0/45/16 standart builld, I should be hit capped for yellow damage, and even with a 1% unavoidable miss chance, I missed quite a lot. Is there any kind of mechanics I don´t know about, or has something secretly changed in 2.4? Or is just a (huge) bunch of bad luck? I even got 2 misses in a single WF combo...

PD Can´t wait to purchase the new badge fist-weapon combo... (i know, no one cares and unrelated, but just couldn´t hide it xDD)

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Old 04/01/08, 6:45 AM   #8222
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
Originally Posted by Tana Umaga View Post
Okay, what happened to me yesterday...

I saw a lot of misses on my WF attacks, something that didn´t happen before... (or at least I wasn´t aware). As I have 0/45/16 standart builld, I should be hit capped for yellow damage, and even with a 1% unavoidable miss chance, I missed quite a lot. Is there any kind of mechanics I don´t know about, or has something secretly changed in 2.4? Or is just a (huge) bunch of bad luck? I even got 2 misses in a single WF combo...

PD Can´t wait to purchase the new badge fist-weapon combo... (i know, no one cares and unrelated, but just couldn´t hide it xDD)
"I saw a lot of misses on my WF attacks." Prove it?
"Even with a 1% unavoidable miss chance." WRONG.
You was in hyjal? right? Check if you have curse -66% to hit.

"Can´t wait to purchase the new badge fist-weapon combo..." Boring.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 04/01/08 at 7:15 AM.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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Old 04/01/08, 7:04 AM   #8223
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Undernet01 View Post
Wait a sec,

The idea is that an item with a 2.6 makes a Windfury proc more than with a fast weapon, such as a Dagger... But then we get into the talk about Haste Rating... Haste Rating changes the Weapon Speed, giving you a faster weapon... Though wouldn't that make your Windfury's Proc Rate considerably less?
The idea is that Slow weapon is better than fast weapon, all else set equal.

When you add haste rating into the equation, Slower weapons are still slower than the faster options. The chances of it proccing windfury is still a flat 20%, although if you haste it enough you might have possible proc not going off due to 3 second cooldown. And yes, when you reach that point (i doubt anyone can aside from using Hyjal necromancer's Unholy Frenzy) your gain in white attacks will vastly outpace the loss of yellow through loss of possible windfury procs.

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Old 04/01/08, 7:06 AM   #8224
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Tana Umaga View Post
Okay, what happened to me yesterday...

I saw a lot of misses on my WF attacks, something that didn´t happen before... (or at least I wasn´t aware). As I have 0/45/16 standart builld, I should be hit capped for yellow damage, and even with a 1% unavoidable miss chance, I missed quite a lot. Is there any kind of mechanics I don´t know about, or has something secretly changed in 2.4? Or is just a (huge) bunch of bad luck? I even got 2 misses in a single WF combo...

PD Can´t wait to purchase the new badge fist-weapon combo... (i know, no one cares and unrelated, but just couldn´t hide it xDD)
You cannot miss yellow unless you were during Hyjal and got cursed by the banshee. The curse reduces hit chance by 66%. If that's not the case, we'll need a screenshot of your combat log or miss coming out of your head. Until then we'll probably not take you very seriously.

There's no "unavoidable 1% miss chance". That only applies to spells, not physical abilities.

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Old 04/01/08, 7:15 AM   #8225
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
The chances of proccing windfury is still a flat 36%

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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