Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 331

Hedin · 04/01/08, 4:22 PM

Redone my WF3sec, It's now for China players only...

• Disquette · 04/01/08, 4:36 PM

Hedin, that's awesome! Grats on the Eastern uptake :-)

Psychodays · 04/01/08, 5:22 PM

I checked out the top 20 Brutalis WWS to look at the different enhance shamans. On the low side Morphling with 1639 dps. Notice his 15.9% swing miss rate and 1.6% WF/SS miss rate. At the top Tommyw and Reuben with ~1850 dps

Reubens armory is similar to Morphlings but, Rueben had the benefits of both a Retadin and Oomkin. That put his crits over 40% and decreased his miss rates. Tommyw really stood out though, check out his 4.7% miss rate with his regular swings. Armory shows him at 22 expertise and 210 hit

Pretty interesting how much expertise/hit improve dps.

iconocclast · 04/01/08, 5:27 PM

Boss mobs are currently believed to have 5.6% dodge vs a player. It will take 23 Expertise (91 Rating) to remove Dodge from the attack table versus a boss mob.

Out of curiosity, why is that listed in the OP under 3.1.3 HASTE RATING?

Tana Umaga · 04/01/08, 5:30 PM

Here´s the proof.

WFmiss

I was wrong, ok, no 1% unavoidable miss chance. So why WF miss?

Malan · 04/01/08, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by iconocclast

Out of curiosity, why is that listed in the OP under 3.1.3 HASTE RATING?

Failure on my part to insert text properly I guess.

Rapparee · 04/01/08, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by Tana Umaga

Here´s the proof.

WFmiss

I was wrong, ok, no 1% unavoidable miss chance. So why WF miss?

yellow text in the right side of your screenshot
white hit 233
WF parried
WF hit 444

blue text on the left side of the screen
OH windfury 677 (1 miss)

Toots Hepcat · 04/01/08, 6:09 PM

Hey, I just noticed [Seeker's Gavel] and [K'iru's Presage] are one handed...once enchanted & oiled, they'll offer 351 +heal and 211 +spell damage respectively. This is a few times more than the best shields or offhand "frills". Dual wielded with decent main hands (such as the Shatar/LC maces), they should offer a nice mid-fight swappable boost for top-up healing, LB spam on fight segments that aren't melee friendly or for pre-pull boosts for the Searing Totem.

Grizlor · 04/01/08, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

Hey, I just noticed [Seeker's Gavel] and [K'iru's Presage] are one handed...once enchanted & oiled, they'll offer 351 +heal and 211 +spell damage respectively. This is a few times more than the best shields or offhand "frills". Dual wielded with decent main hands (such as the Shatar/LC maces), they should offer a nice mid-fight swappable boost for top-up healing, LB spam on fight segments that aren't melee friendly or for pre-pull boosts for the Searing Totem.

Nerfed in today's patch.

• Binkenstein · 04/01/08, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Strygwyr

Wow Web Stats WWS for our most recent BT clear with Shard of Contempt.
From what I can tell, the shard PPM was 1.2 for me.

Works out at about 50 seconds. My estimate for a base 2.6/2.6 speed was 53 seconds, so I'd say that's fairly accurate.

Mengus · 04/01/08, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Rapparee

yellow text in the right side of your screenshot
white hit 233
WF parried
WF hit 444

blue text on the left side of the screen
OH windfury 677 (1 miss)

The same reason you have to expand the detail in WWS, parries, dodges, blocks are counted as 'misses' until you drill down.

Toots Hepcat · 04/01/08, 6:27 PM

Originally Posted by Mengus

The same reason you have to expand the detail in WWS, parries, dodges, blocks are counted as 'misses' until you drill down.

Yeah -- if you eyeball the numbers going down the RIGHT side of the screen, we have a white attack for 233, a WF parry, and a WF attack for 444. Add 'em all up, and you've got 677 damage for the "attack," plus one non-hit, which your SCT mod is calling a "miss."

Aximous · 04/01/08, 6:33 PM

Originally Posted by Saliik

Also, I noticed that in the OP it says bosses are believed to have a 5.6% dodge (23 exp cap), but then a few weeks ago, there was some discussion about determining boss dodge rates. However, that discussion seems to have died with no result posted. Is 5.6% still the assumed dodge chance, or is that still in question?

The other assumption was 6,5% dodge rate, just did some trys on illidan with the shard with a total of 6% dodge reduction from expertise, and I still got dodges on stormstrike. So 6,5% seems a little more correct value.
WWS

Yakout · 04/01/08, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

Hey, I just noticed [Seeker's Gavel] and [K'iru's Presage] are one handed...once enchanted & oiled, they'll offer 351 +heal and 211 +spell damage respectively. This is a few times more than the best shields or offhand "frills". Dual wielded with decent main hands (such as the Shatar/LC maces), they should offer a nice mid-fight swappable boost for top-up healing, LB spam on fight segments that aren't melee friendly or for pre-pull boosts for the Searing Totem.

This was, alas, hotfixed out of existence last week, and confirmed dead with this week's patch. They nailed [Terokk's Gavel] and the other lingering 1h spell damage weapons at the same time.

If you still want to go this route, your remaining best recourse is a 70 random green DPS axe, fist, or mace "of the Invoker/Sorcerer", but at +138/83 or +96 (healing or spell damage enchants, respectively, plus oil) it's a lot less appealing than a "real" caster weapon in the offhand. Still, for offspec healing (cringe) it'll beat most shields, at least after oiling...

Occultus456 · 04/01/08, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by Psychodays

I checked out the top 20 Brutalis WWS to look at the different enhance shamans. On the low side Morphling with 1639 dps. Notice his 15.9% swing miss rate and 1.6% WF/SS miss rate. At the top Tommyw and Reuben with ~1850 dps

Reubens armory is similar to Morphlings but, Rueben had the benefits of both a Retadin and Oomkin. That put his crits over 40% and decreased his miss rates. Tommyw really stood out though, check out his 4.7% miss rate with his regular swings. Armory shows him at 22 expertise and 210 hit

Pretty interesting how much expertise/hit improve dps.

Got 1881DPS today @our Killing Try with only 135 Hit and 44 Expertise Rating (Shard of Conempt), but with high Armor Penetration (1519 with Executioner Proc).
Here is my Armory Link: The World of Warcraft Armory

There are missing several items from BT and MH, so i think its an encounter where you can get the 2k DPS with some lucky WF Crits. We are using Retribution Paladin,SV Hunter, but no Moonkin.

All in all VERY nice encounter for Enhancement Shamans i think. Any other experiences @Brut with Armor Pen. Gear?

Recount Screen: http://s5.directupload.net/images/080401/7d2xjscb.jpg

Malan · 04/01/08, 6:38 PM

Stormstrike and windfury are actually pretty poor indicators of what the dodge rate is. The number of procs/usages you get from those 2 abilities during even a full BT clear of bosses is low enough that adding 1 or 2 more missed would pretty significantly fuck up your percentages.

Originally Posted by Occultus456

ut with high Armor Penetration (1519 with Executioner Proc).[/url]

Call me crazy but even if I decided to count executioner as the full 840 Armor Pen, your belt, cloak and neck do not add up to 700 additional penetration.

Tana Umaga · 04/01/08, 6:40 PM

Originally Posted by Rapparee

yellow text in the right side of your screenshot
white hit 233
WF parried
WF hit 444

blue text on the left side of the screen
OH windfury 677 (1 miss)

Okay, fake. I see your point and I see the fail must be on SCT, because i´ve been closely reviewing the combat log and no wf miss appears (what made me panic is that both SCT and Shaman Friend showed WF doged, WF parried and WF missed).

Sorry for the inconvinience.

Tambard · 04/01/08, 6:52 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Stormstrike and windfury are actually pretty poor indicators of what the dodge rate is. The number of procs/usages you get from those 2 abilities during even a full BT clear of bosses is low enough that adding 1 or 2 more missed would pretty significantly fuck up your percentages.

Call me crazy but even if I decided to count executioner as the full 840 Armor Pen, your belt, cloak and neck do not add up to 700 additional penetration.

Choker - 175
Cloak - 112
MH - 49
OH - 140
Belt - 77
Ring - 126
__________
679

Geims · 04/01/08, 9:06 PM

Hi.
I love this forum and specially this thread.

I'm Skyshaker and I have a question.

I use [Hourglass of the Unraveller] and [Dragonspine Trophy].

I just crafted [Alchemist's Stone] becouse I want to craft [Assassin's Alchemist Stone]...

Can you add those two trinket in section 3.5 with the EP?

It's [Alchemist's Stone] better than [Hourglass of the Unraveller]?

Edited wrong english words... If you see other error please help me to save my idiocy.
Have a good life. =)
Geims

Undernet01 · 04/01/08, 9:23 PM

One of the more prevalent suggestions is that Enhance Shaman should optimize their DPS by speccing into Elemental for a 5 second shock cooldown, 5% increased shock damage, and of course the Elemental Devastation Talent, typically achieved by removing points from Mental Quickness and/or Improved Weapon Totems for an 18/43/0 build.

The logic of this build is fundamentally flawed. A properly geared Enhancement Shaman will have at most a 6% spell crit rate from Intellect. Under perfect conditions this will amount to a 1% crit gain from Elemental Devastation. Under not-so-perfect conditions, this talent would be negligible and worthless to an Enhancement shaman.
The probability of getting 2 crit shocks in a row at 6% spell crit, in order to sustain the extra melee crit bonus of Elemental Devastation, is 1-(1- 0.6)^2 = 0.118. That's about 12% uptime of an extra 1% crit from 3 talent points.

Can you please elaborate on which Spec would be best for an Enhancement Shaman? (Possibility of using a Talent Calculator and linking to that?)

I did Search for the Answers but wasn't really able to find anything relative.

Rhaegal · 04/01/08, 9:57 PM

Originally Posted by Undernet01

Can you please elaborate on which Spec would be best for an Enhancement Shaman? (Possibility of using a Talent Calculator and linking to that?)

I did Search for the Answers but wasn't really able to find anything relative.

What you're looking for is this thread: Enhancement Cage Match: Two specs enter, One spec leaves

◊ Rob · 04/01/08, 10:15 PM

I'm a fan of this build for having almost everything you'd want for PvE and almost everything you'd want for PvP. (Got us to 2126 5v5 in two nights.)

Brasidas · 04/01/08, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Psychodays

I checked out the top 20 Brutalis WWS to look at the different enhance shamans. On the low side Morphling with 1639 dps. Notice his 15.9% swing miss rate and 1.6% WF/SS miss rate. At the top Tommyw and Reuben with ~1850 dps

Reubens armory is similar to Morphlings but, Rueben had the benefits of both a Retadin and Oomkin. That put his crits over 40% and decreased his miss rates. Tommyw really stood out though, check out his 4.7% miss rate with his regular swings. Armory shows him at 22 expertise and 210 hit

Pretty interesting how much expertise/hit improve dps.

Nothing like having a Retadin and Oomkin in a raid (GO Illthia and Obbee) 3 Lw's in the group rocks aswell, drum cycles ftw. Would of been awesome if we had a critbear in group though. I agree with you in regards to Tommy the 4.7% miss really stands out, atleast compared to my 12.5%. Personally i wouldnt go with 210 hit, but looking forward to stealing expertise from some sunwell bosses.

• Disquette · 04/01/08, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Geims

Hi.
I love this forum and specially this t3d.

I'm Skyshaker and I have a question.

I use [Hourglass of the Unraveller] and [Dragonspine Trophy].

I just crafted [Alchemist's Stone] becouse I want to craft [Assassin's Alchemist Stone]...

Can you add those two trinket in section 3.5 with the EP?

It's [Alchemist's Stone] better than [Hourglass of the Unraveller]?

At the risk of possibly gaining myself an infraction for making a "useless post", may I be the first to say "Wow!"

diggidy · 04/02/08, 2:26 AM

Well I have 2 syphon of nathrezims and a rising tide and everyone says that the best way to go is to do executioner/ mongoose. Does anyone know which weapon is better to put executioner on and what hand i should put it in. I really cant figure out which is better.