Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 336

Fola · 04/04/08, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wolflord

I just picked up the [Fist of Molten Fury] to complete the set for looks. We had a fun little jaunt into TK for shoulders and I decided to try it out (unenchanted). Testing was just to see if the set bonus proc was worth the 100 or so dps loss of switching to a fast/flametongue offhand. It isnt. It procs often enough, but the damage is miniscule, worked out as under 1% of my damage. Still running the instance, so no WWS yet, but can post later if anyone is interested.

I would be interested to see the WWS just for fun, I picked up the MH the other day in Hyjal mostly for looks. Just in case they fix the speed of the OH I am curious to know what the proc is like. What does the animation look like when it procs? Does the proc just look life a Fiery Weapon Enchant animation or something different?

Aksing · 04/04/08, 1:29 PM

So i've been searching for a temporary replacement to enhancer whilst it gets fixed.

I did download the equivalent points addon from wowace, and it's not displaying properly on in game items.
Not like it used to anyway.

All that i've found so far is some totem timer addons like gotwood, and wf3 for wf cooldown bars.

If anyone else has any to recommend please do.

And if anyone has an eta on enhancer actually working that would be great.

automatica · 04/04/08, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

my wedding is in 22 days

Congratulations. =)

Toots Hepcat · 04/04/08, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jessamy

Hopefully I can stop being wrong and go back to learning.

Being wrong is a big part of learning.

Your numbers look OK -- well, actually they look high, I though Mongoose et al had an average uptime of around 35%. However, I have a concern about Crusader -- a few (dozen) pages back, somebody mentioned a theory that while BC enchants adjust their proc rate according to your current weapon speed, "Vanilla WoW" enchants, such as Crusader, have a constant proc rate based on the weapon's unhasted speed. Meaning that any haste buffs will, essentially, add more chances to proc and should increase the uptime as a result.

Confirmation on this would be nice, since most shamans' average weapon speed is much faster than at rest.

Wolflord · 04/04/08, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Fola

I would be interested to see the WWS just for fun, I picked up the MH the other day in Hyjal mostly for looks. Just in case they fix the speed of the OH I am curious to know what the proc is like. What does the animation look like when it procs? Does the proc just look life a Fiery Weapon Enchant animation or something different?

Heres the WWS: Bjeoran - WWS
Its probably misleading however. Youll notice we took a scraps raid into TK so i was only self buffed. As all other damage scales with buffs Id expect the proc to be worth less than 1%. The WWS dosnt cover trash, though it was exactly 1% of my dmg for trash too. (Off topic: it must be noted watching the ranged get annihilated by the 'new' VR was excellent).

I didnt notice the graphic on the proc (SCT was not prepared for so many numbers) so I beat on some mobs outside Shatt. Just a nice boring explosion on proc:

The only true use Ive found for the offhand fist is to wear with 8pieces of t5 graphicced armour and just strut around Shatt, and it does excel at that. If they ever did 'fix' the speed it would make an excellent offhand, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

frozndevl · 04/04/08, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by Aksing

So i've been searching for a temporary replacement to enhancer whilst it gets fixed.

I did download the equivalent points addon from wowace, and it's not displaying properly on in game items.
Not like it used to anyway.

All that i've found so far is some totem timer addons like gotwood, and wf3 for wf cooldown bars.

If anyone else has any to recommend please do.

And if anyone has an eta on enhancer actually working that would be great.

I've been using gotwood for the totem timers and Disqodice for my windfury, stormstrike, water shield, and twisting bars.

DisqoDice | World of Warcraft Addons | Curse

• Jessamy · 04/04/08, 4:39 PM

I'm not sure how I got my 45% uptime for Crusader -- apparently some flawed late night arithmetic. I found

Chance on hit (%) = weapon speed * 1.82

(source)

WoWWiki has a slightly different number

% to Proc = Weapon Speed * 1.667

(source)

So depending on which number is more authoritative, either 1.1 ppm or 1.0 ppm. Either way, more like 25% uptime than 45%.

For Mongoose and Executioner, I saw "40-45%" in Keiji's original post, looked at my calculated uptime for Crusader of almost exactly 45%, and made a brash assumption that I had discovered a Blizzard standard.

My numbers are looking less and less hard -- but oh well I put Mongoose on my Breeching Comet anyway.

Toots Hepcat · 04/04/08, 4:58 PM

Yo's sim gives me a Mongoose and Executioner uptime of ~36% MH and 31% OH. I get the same for Crusader, and all three seem to scale up with haste, implying that the model does not match the theory (myth?) I referenced above.

Is that calculated uptime for single or dual Crusader? And do you have a Mongoose parse to compare it to?

• Jessamy · 04/04/08, 5:52 PM

People have demonstrated elsewhere that the simulator is more accurate than spreadsheets. I therefore shall assume your 36% number is more accurate than my numbers.

I'm not sure I understand your question regarding Mongoose. Perhaps this touches on that subject?

Although the supposed proc rate is approximately the same as Crusader (1 ppm), this enchant can proc multiple times in a row even on 2h weapons. It does not appear to have a hidden cooldown. The proc is most likely normalized to 1ppm, but not strictly bound to it.

(source)

My calculations have all been for single-wield. Since everything except Executioner stacks, I was considering the MH & OH EP values separately in my table. The buff will have more total uptime, but I the uptime benefit from the individual enchant is separated. This fails when Executioner is enchanted on both MH & OH. The buff will have more uptime than from a single enchant, but the added benefit from the second weapon is much less. The math gets harder to demonstrate, but I conjecture that the reduced benefit means Executioner-Mongoose is the high-end best combination.

Anyway, here are some new numbers for my table:

t4 ep  t5 ep  t6 ep
 24.3   24.3   24.3  striking    +7 dmg
 34.8   36.0   33.8  greater agi 20 agi
 40.0   40.0   44.0  potency     20 str
 43.2   43.2   47.5  crusader    60 str, 36% uptime
 66.5   84.7  105.8  executioner 840 armor pen, 36% uptime
 89.6   94.5   95.7  mongoose    120 agi, 2% haste (31.4 haste rating), 36% uptime

Roonie · 04/04/08, 7:55 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Haven't gotten around to it, I'm in the middle of a busy period at work, my wedding is in 22 days, and I'm still trying to raid.

Congrats

Piestein · 04/04/08, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Haven't gotten around to it, I'm in the middle of a busy period at work, my wedding is in 22 days, and I'm still trying to raid.

Congratulations.

Now on topic, so that I don't get a warning. Jessamy suggests Executioner EP bigger then Mongoose for t6 equivalence, but I believe that should be only in case that you have t6 ArP gear: I will run some tests to see if my assumption is correct, but I believe it is so- it was stated somewhere in the previous pages, but I just can't remember which one exactly. It is also possible that those stats are highly dependant on the current boss fight: Brutallus has high armor like stated above, some other bosses however- just normal armor. This is just a mere suggestion though, since the time I am posting at and the fact that you probably spend a lot more time than me for calculating. But still, if every boss has different armor, would Executioner demanding a more "special environment" influent on the importance of the enchant?

Lujaar · 04/05/08, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

Slightly more Re: [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might]

90 total hits of Arcane Strike, 30 crits = based on melee crit rate. Crits for 2x, but since the max non-crit is 404 and the max crit is 831, I suspect that it's affected by [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond]. Will know for sure after messing around with my combat log from last night's Dire Maul marathon.

Amusingly, I had zero dodges or resists, but it was parried twice on trash, implying that it's subject to parry/dodge mechanics instead of resists, which is consistent with its crit mechanics. However, it is, interestingly enough, subject to partial resists, which I saw 9 of last night.

Did a few sessions in the blasted lands while waiting for someone to log on and give me something to do, and I'm seeing about the same thing. Seems to be based on melee crit rate, hits for a little under 400 on average.

Proc rate seems to be a little under 1.5 PPM in actual play (taking into WF and SS and its internal cooldown and whatever else).

Damage doesn't seem to scale with any stat other than crit. I was landing 400-ish arcane strikes naked and meleeing with my healing mace.

Oprahwinfury · 04/05/08, 5:28 AM

Does anyone know how big DPS increase we get from [Flame Cap], using the standard FS/ES rotation and having Searing Totem up?

Pitbuller · 04/05/08, 6:41 AM

Fire spell damage portion is 7dps when used. One minute effect and three minute cooldown. So +2.33dps. Do someone know what is proc rate?

Wrathblood · 04/05/08, 10:54 AM

A quick follow-up on the Shattered Sun Pendant of Might. Got one last night and did a few minutes of testing on various elites around Skettis and Terokkar to check the proc rate.

With a 1.6 speed weapon single-wielded I had 7 procs in exactly 7 minutes of fighting which included 216 regular melee hits/crits/blocks (can't recall if there were any glancing blows or not). 1 proc was parried.

With a 3.6 speed 2h weapon, I had 7 procs in 8:10 encompassing 146 regular melee hits/crits/blocks.

Its a small data sample, but suggests that the 15% proc rate and 45 second hidden cooldown of the other Shattered Sun neck proc applies to this one as well. IMO, this results in 5-7 dps depending on weapon speed and arguably makes it comparable to the Vindicator neck.

Devnex · 04/05/08, 8:16 PM

Has there been any headway made into the 5.6 versus 6.5% dodge discussion? Last I'd heard Rhaegal was collecting WWS's. Any updates?

Atren · 04/06/08, 2:24 AM

From WoW Forums -> 2.4 Known Issues list

The Arcane Strike proc from Shattered Sun Pendant of Might is breaking crowd control effects such as Scatter Shot.
It is possible to dodge, block, and parry the proc Arcane Strike from the Shattered Sun Pendant of Might

Since it is known bug list i guess it will soon no longer be dodged, blocked or parried. Since it already can be partially resisted according to someone i guess it somehow atm suffers both spell and melee effects. I hope it stays on melee crit as while it has not been mentioned there, would not be suprised if it was a side effect of whatever wrong there as well.

Oprahwinfury · 04/06/08, 6:35 AM

Originally Posted by Pitbuller

Fire spell damage portion is 7dps when used. One minute effect and three minute cooldown. So +2.33dps. Do someone know what is proc rate?

I could try and figure it out if someone would tell me how to do so

falonub · 04/07/08, 4:33 AM

Running the sim, it says I should be getting 10-15 more DPS using Shard/Berserker's Call compared to Shard/DST. Using 1.92 as my EP for haste, I'm confused because DST(196 AEP) comes out ahead of Berserker's Call(150). So wouldn't that result in this proof(A = Shard, B = DST, C = Berserker's Call): A > C, B > C then A + B > A + C; but that disagrees with what the sim is telling me after repeated runs. Is this because AP is better for WF & melee than the haste proc just for auto attacking?

qualia · 04/07/08, 5:21 AM

Originally Posted by falonub

Running the sim, it says I should be getting 10-15 more DPS using Shard/Berserker's Call compared to Shard/DST. Using 1.92 as my EP for haste, I'm confused because DST(196 AEP) comes out ahead of Berserker's Call(150). So wouldn't that result in this proof(A = Shard, B = DST, C = Berserker's Call): A > C, B > C then A + B > A + C; but that disagrees with what the sim is telling me after repeated runs. Is this because AP is better for WF & melee than the haste proc just for auto attacking?

I've been wondering that abit myself too. Does the sim assume that we pop all CDs at once? If so, that could perhaps explain the decrease in dps.

To explain,
The more CDs you have, the greater you can 'stack' them together. While I am not sure about the exact math, off the hand thinking seems to justify this.

Consider that if I am doing 1000 damage per 2 seconds. Over one minute, my DPS would be 500DPS.
Now if I had a trinket which decreases my swing timer to 1 second for 20 seconds, my resulting DPS would be 667DPS.
Similarly, if I had a trinket which increases my damage per swing to 2000 for 20 seconds, my resulting DPS would be 667DPS.
Now, if I were using both trinkets (but only one after the other), then my resulting DPS would be 833DPS.
Finally, if I were using BOTH trinkets together at the same time, my resulting DPS would be 1000DPS.

From these considerations, I believe that even though both DST and Shard might be INDIVIDUALLY better than Berserker's Call. The fact that you can 'stack' Berserker's Call with your other CDs might (requesting real maths pls!) provide it with the crucial edge over using the Shard + DST combo.

h4rr0d · 04/07/08, 6:47 AM

Has anyone done research for [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] for Aldors (as in AEP value of the proc)?

Pitbuller · 04/07/08, 8:00 AM

[Shattered Sun Pendant of Might]
200ep * (10s / (45s cd + 5s time to proc)) = 40ep

wanieczki · 04/07/08, 8:30 AM

I have a simple question. Are you all totem twsiting on whole fights? Or You simple dont twist.

Bellante · 04/07/08, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Sebudai

I was running some simulations today with Yo's! simulator and I was getting some weird EP values for haste rating. Based off of my current gear it was averaging out at 0.44 EP, which seems really low. The last time I ran the simulator haste was coming in at an EP value of 2.0, and the only thing that has changed for me since then is I picked up a Shard of Contempt and T6 bracers.

Was this already mentioned? I searched the thread but didn't see anything.

I've been seeing some instability in my own EP, haste seems to be going up as I get more expertise, which makes sense, but I've also seen some really unstable hit rating EP's, which worries me. Calculations were running during raids, didn't notice any wrongly entered inputs, but I'm a bit worried that there's something in the sim's handling of expertise that isn't making sense. Given that no-one has reported anything except Sebudai and me, I'm guessing that the error is on my end, but I'll get back to you once I have some more solid data.

Sebudai · 04/07/08, 11:18 AM

I discovered why my haste rating EP was dropping so low. With my settings, and various common procs(like DST), I was spiking to roughly 1.51 speed and thus demolishing the value of additional haste(since dipping into the 1.41-1.49 range is not so great.) Unselecting the Haste Potion option seemed to fix this as my EP value for haste went from 0.44 back up to 2.01. I use Haste Potions, but the way the simulator models them can be misleading since they're not actually a static 50 haste rating.