Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 340

Buanna · 04/11/08, 2:27 AM

100% haste means you get 100% more attacks in the same unit time.

If you normally got 20 swings in 20 seconds and some how managed to gain 100% haste, you'd get 40 swings in 20 seconds; a 100% increase in swings.

• Daler · 04/11/08, 3:59 AM

Originally Posted by Wolfhand

Okay, now I'm confused again. Am I wrong in thinking putting %100 into that formula would mean

NEW_SPEED = OLD_SPEED / (2) ?

That is to say, having 100% haste is only 50% of base attack rate? That's what I initially thought it was until a contradicting situation came up(flurry/dragonspine haste/BL cut my base attack rate by more than 50%, and this combination is not 100% haste).

Can someone explain how this formula works in context?

If I remember correctly, % haste modifiers are separately multiplicative and plain haste rating (passive and procs) is additive.

NEW_SPEED = OLD_SPEED / (1 + Haste % modifiers) / (1 + Haste rating/15.67/100)

So the above gear set would yield: NEW_SPEED = 3.5 / 1.3 / 1.3 / (1 + 762/15.76/100) = 1.4 secs

The problem with the first post in this discussion is that all haste effects were treated additively, which I'm fairly certain isn't the case.

Hedin · 04/11/08, 5:13 AM

Why you think that 2.6 sec = SPEED?! It's Swing Time!
Speed=1/Swing_Time
Haste effects Speed like New_speed=Old_speed*Haste
So New_Swing_Time=Old_Swing_Time/Haste
where Haste=(1+Haste_from_flurry)*(1+Haste_from_largest_nonself_modifier)*(1+Haste_rating/15.67/100)

Wolfhand · 04/11/08, 9:14 AM

Allright, I think I get it.

So if you had say, a 3.0 speed weapon and 52% haste from gear, then

NEW_SPEED = 3.0 / (1.52) = 1.97, and while the swing time has been cut by something closer to 33% the amount of attacks you gain in a normal timeframe using this weapon increases by 52%.

Adding in Flurry,

NEW_SPEED = 3.0 / ((1.52) * (1.3)) = 1.51, the swing time has been cut nearly in half, increasing the number of attacks you gain in a normal timeframe by 97-98%.

I just interpreted what %haste meant incorrectly the first time, then. Thanks a lot, everyone!

Malan · 04/11/08, 10:31 AM

I have 4% haste from armor items.
Hasted Speed = 2.6 / (1 + 0.04) = 2.5

I have 50% haste from items.
Hasted speed = 2.6 / (1 + 0.5) = 1.73

Here's another way to look at it.

2.0sec / swing = 30 swing/min
30 swing/min * 1.3 = 39 swing/min
60 seconds/min / 39 swing/min = 1.538 seconds / swing

The easiest way to look at haste is that it is increasing the number of swings per minute that you can have. 50% haste isn't really reducing your swing timer per se (inded there are values of haste% where your swing timer won't match up with the value!) its increasing your number of attacks in a minute by 50%. The system that blizzard is using ensures that you can never reach a 0 attack speed.

Deetz · 04/11/08, 8:31 PM

Alright for [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] i found out the proc rate, its about every 40-45seconds or so, and [Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve] procs a lot more, about about every 30-35seconds or so (i spent a good 45min testing this out myself) And sorta in a way i think the expertise one is better because of the proc of gaining more hits, over the instant damage......but just for second thoughts what do you all think? :P

Malan · 04/11/08, 10:22 PM

That's not the proc rate, you're observing the cooldown on the proc. We need to know at what rate it procs when not on cooldown, that requires a long log file.

kelben · 04/12/08, 1:40 AM

Shrug - tell me how to take a log file for this proc, and i'll submit it. Oh i'm still needing a good place to test it... no more doc boom since I'm melee now.

edit: WoW Combat Log Parser is this the mod I should use?

Abakus · 04/12/08, 4:47 AM

Procc Rate Determination is easy in Blasted Lands.
Just fight Servants of xxx, unless you follow the quest line, they are invincible and do not hit that hard.

Rhagok · 04/12/08, 8:16 AM

I have a question about twisting with the new mechanic of being able to destroy single totems. How would a macro look like that would be for twisting which would destroy the current air totem before placing a new one? Or well simply the Macro code for the destruction of the air totem would suffice, I think I can work out the rest myself ^^

Anyway I think it would help sustain twisting after 2.4 as our manareg got severly nurfed due to the int/spirit change. I for one got me 2 full stacks of Demonic Runes as of now to sustain full twisting on Brutallus.

Shipo · 04/12/08, 10:52 AM

The command is something like /totemdestroy(totem nr) but it won't help with twisting due to the fact that it will simply kill the totem, not recall it. We dont get any mana back if we kill it

.

Untill they change the destroy mechanic casting the new totem will still be better.

PS: found it after a few more google atempts.

/run DestroyTotem(#)

Replace # with 1-4 (1 being Earth, and so on).

Malan · 04/12/08, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by Rhagok

after 2.4 as our manareg got severly nurfed due to the int/spirit change

Say what?

• Jessamy · 04/12/08, 3:02 PM

On my shaman, I get a lot of mp5 mana regen from Water Shield and Mana Spring totem. Shamanistic Rage is a nice button to push. In a raid environment shadow priest vampirism or paladin JoW & BoW also help. As far as I know, none of these have changed with 2.4.

On my holy priest, the new int / spir synergy has given me a significant increase to spirit-based mana regen, both I5SR & OO5SR. This makes my /stopcasting macro even more fun and useful for long encounters. None of this was really relevant to my shaman, and as far as I know still isn't.

So unless I'm missing something, shaman (any spec) didn't lose any mana regen with the patch, but perhaps didn't gain as much as a priest, druid, or mage did. A relative loss, I suppose.

Atren · 04/12/08, 3:23 PM

I guess he referring to the natural regen outside 5s rule. In that we might have lost i guess.

Blizzard hotfixed SSO exalted necklace. Can it still be dodged, parried and etc. or they fixed that too beside proc problem?

Malan · 04/12/08, 3:33 PM

If you are outside the 5 second rule as an enhancement shaman, you're doing it wrong.

Binkenstein · 04/12/08, 7:40 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

If you are outside the 5 second rule as a shaman, you're doing it wrong.

I think it applies to all specs, really.

Tuili · 04/13/08, 3:12 PM

I know it's a crime to put hit rating gems in one's yellow sockets. But I feel I have reason to do so. Here's the Yo sim to back me up: *Clicky*. Linked to save space. I have the standard enhancement build with full hit talents.

The image shows the sim of my gear with inscribed in the three sockets I -could- put rigid (hit) in. Am I loosing my mind or is that a 3 in the hit rating weight?! Ran the sim several times and it came out with the same ratio every time.

Leonina · 04/13/08, 3:20 PM

As "standard build" you have +9% hit, so how can you only have 7% inputted on the calc?

LazyJoe · 04/13/08, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Tuili

I know it's a crime to put hit rating gems in one's yellow sockets. But I feel I have reason to do so. Here's the Yo sim to back me up: *Clicky*. Linked to save space. I have the standard enhancement build with full hit talents.

The image shows the sim of my gear with inscribed in the three sockets I -could- put rigid (hit) in. Am I loosing my mind or is that a 3 in the hit rating weight?! Ran the sim several times and it came out with the same ratio every time.

Nothing surprising. You have to inputyou total hit% in the sim, including talents (your value should be 16,42% so). With 7,42% hit you wouldn't even be capped for special attacks, so your hit rating would be around twice as valuable

Tuili · 04/13/08, 3:26 PM

Thank you. Can't believe I didn't realise that. Edit: I was for some reason under the impression that the sim used the "mouse over" values from the paper doll and had the 9% hit by default. Sorry for polluting the thread.

Rhagok · 04/13/08, 4:28 PM

There is no default 9% Hit, some people who still try an Elemental Subspec they only have 6% by themselves so you have to add it manually.

• frmorrison · 04/13/08, 5:07 PM

Originally Posted by Atren

Blizzard hotfixed SSO exalted necklace. Can it still be dodged, parried and etc. or they fixed that too beside proc problem?

The scyrer proc counts as a melee attack, so it can still be dodged, parried, missed, etc.

Blazingwater · 04/14/08, 1:54 AM

Originally Posted by Deetz

Alright for [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] i found out the proc rate, its about every 40-45seconds or so, and [Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve] procs a lot more, about about every 30-35seconds or so (i spent a good 45min testing this out myself) And sorta in a way i think the expertise one is better because of the proc of gaining more hits, over the instant damage......but just for second thoughts what do you all think? :P

Do we yet have an EP value on [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] for Aldor? Seems to be of better use than the Scryer proc.

Tuili · 04/14/08, 2:55 AM

Originally Posted by kelben

... Oh i'm still needing a good place to test it... no more doc boom since I'm melee now.

Serve the servant. At 1ish % HP he gains an absorb all shield, only penetrable with a quest item. You can bash away for hours. Oh, and tell him I said hi.

promdates · 04/14/08, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by Blazingwater

Do we yet have an EP value on [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] for Aldor? Seems to be of better use than the Scryer proc.

I would have to guess it would be a ((200 * 10 * 0.9)/60) or 30EP for the aldor proc. This is, of course, figuring it's a 0.9 ppm.