Was the Ashtongue talisman nerfed recently? I got it a few days ago and every WWS I look at it is hovering around 50% uptime. Of course if I managed to get a Stormstrike off before the buff expired it wouldn't accurately display on WWS, but I find it hard to believe with latency it is possible to keep Power Surge up.
Was the Ashtongue talisman nerfed recently? I got it a few days ago and every WWS I look at it is hovering around 50% uptime. Of course if I managed to get a Stormstrike off before the buff expired it wouldn't accurately display on WWS, but I find it hard to believe with latency it is possible to keep Power Surge up.
Sup all. I've read all this thread from start to end. Read all the Flurry thread. Read the other Itemization thread and so on. All the stuff about gems and so i'm going forward to it, like going for the crit/str gems into yellow slots, str gems into red and so on...
I'm currently farming the S2 arena weapon to use as off-hand. Trying to get the T4 chest and shoulder. I really think i understand and know all the mechanics that was discussed in here forth and back into all these threads.
What i can't undestand is my actual DPS in the current level of gear i am. I really think i'm doing low damage, with the level of gear i am. My guild have some nice DPS, that hit hard and constantly, mantaining high DPS most raids. (Well geared rogues, mages, locks for our current level).
We are at the moment wiping on 50% on Morogrim and already killed loot Reaver and trying Al'ar. Right now when i'm typing this my guild is trying Morogrim, but they don't allow me in, as our ret pally is already in. They aways bring to the raid either of us, and no way both can be in, as they think that would be most...hybrid.
They really think my DPS is higher and my buffs are higher than his buffs, but they left him in to tank the murlocs and so. I Still needed the loots from it, but as we didn't killed it yet, i can't go in until we perfect the strategy.
That said, i want to post some screenies to show u guys my performance at Gruul and Mag. Those fights i was using a Fool's bane and now i'm already with my Dragonmaw, as u can check on my armory. i'm going for screenshots because is the only thing i got, if it's not allowed or unpleasant because of the higher bandwith i apologize in advance.
I'd like to know what your opinions would be, if that level of DPS is normal or not, as i'm kinda lost as i saw people reporting higher numbers.
The Mag fight i had clicking duty as i do all the time.
Here's my armory so u can quick check it. I know my trinkets sucks and i'm trying to get the badges for the Bloodlust and drop the Hourglass. My rings are not the best for the level, but couldn't get the unique prince drop ring we got.
Having the Runic OH with a 2.7 MH is going to mess up your DPS a little bit regardless since its going to inevitably eat some WF cooldowns. You can do a bit better on a few items - for example on your Rip Flayer leggings you put in a Blue gem in order to get a +6 Stam socket bonus. That bonus isn't helping you DPS any harder though, and you'd likely be better off putting in a full DPS gem instead. On your gloves you skipped the +3 crit rating bonus though, which is worth getting since Crit Rating and Str are equivalent AEP values before BoK is taken into account, but the crit rating from the gem/bonus would likely make up for it.
Given your weapons and gear I'd say you should be doing closer to 600 DPS on Gruul, not 470. I was doing 400 DPS at the start of KZ in blues in comparison. The arena axe will give you a huge boost, and so would getting the Totem of Astral Winds. On your gruul fight it looks like you cast Healing Wave at least 3 times, maybe as many as 6. Thats a minimum of 12 seconds not DPSing, and as high as 18 seconds. That accounts for part of your DPS drop, and that's also time that you are not providing Unleashed Rage to your group.
On Mag you need to fight to not be a clicker. Ranged are able to stand right at the cube and DPS full time, putting a melee on it makes you pretty worthless in Phase 2.
On a wholly separate note, try to arrange your post into some more logical paragraphs next time. (I realize you said you're in a raid right now) Its really hard to read when ever line is separated out like that.
Thankx for the input and i'll try to tell why of some stuff i'm using:
First of all, the Runic Hammer was the best available offhand i could get with a decent level. I sure think it's too fast for what i want, but didn't want to get a 2.6 speed weapon as although the number of eaten procs will be fewer, the DPS dif won't be THAT great. So i forged it and working slooooowwwwlly onto my arena S2 weapon.
The blue gem into my pants where socketed because i had so little HP, and healer kept complaining that in fights like VR they had to zomghealhim!! so much that was a pain in the ass. So i stick it in to be on 9-9.5k HP buffed on raids. I understand i could have some better dps-oriented gem into that slot, but put that on purpose.
The gloves, if i'm not mistaken and didn't forgot anything, had the best rating into lootzor.com with double str gems. One of those slots is blue, so might be it...dunno.
I rerolled from my holy pally to this shammy, so i might be a little juiced into healing when things go a bit mad. I like to top myself most of the time too so i can save some healer's mana.
At Mag, most of the time i'm clicking on cube because other retards can't click a floating cube in front of them at the right time O.o And our ranged DPS aways complains that they can't stop DPSing to click it. So most of the time we have rogues, DPS warrs or me clicking it. But we do have ranged clicking too...go figures...
I basically did all this reply because i expected a dPS closer to what u said, 600, and i'm continualy getting closer to 450-485 range.
Since you're taking a dps spot, plus buffing your dps group, you need to focus on dps. Healing should be something you do in emergency situations or at times when you can't get in melee range. Every time you leave Mag to go click, that's time your group isn't getting unleashed rage.
On Void Reaver, it's possible for you to take next to no damage at all. Stand in pounding range, then back out right before the pounding, then step back in so you aren't in arcane ball range. Deadly boss mods is great if you need decent timers.
You should try to pick up the 2p t4 and a helm with a meta gem. I'd suggest chest and shoulders for t4, since they're your weakest slots. That combined with the upgrades you already have planned should put you in a great spot for gear. The 2.6 offhand is a must, missing main hand windfury crits is devastating to your dps.
Also, if you're crazy like me you can drop your points in resto and put them in elemental.
Only thing that really catches my eyes is that your pants are unenchanted (an easy 40 AP/10 crit rating). Are you keeping behind the target, making sure you have maximum contact time, using cooldowns appropriately (damage windows), and making sure you have the right buffs (Battle Shout, SoE, Salv, etc) maintained throughout the fight?
On a different note, after some recent upgrades (Dragonspine/Merciless Offhand), I'm having some real issues with threat, especially on trash. Part of it can be explained with half the raid using outdated threat meter mods, but not all. How do you deal with the fact that you can get this kind of uncontrollable burst at almost any time:
11:08'52.140 Magtheridon's Blast Nova hits Hortez for 2407 Fire damage
156 Hortez's Melee crits Magtheridon for 2350
468 Hortez's Earth Shock hits Magtheridon for 1655 Nature damage
890 Hortez's Improved Leader of the Pack heals Hortez for 462
11:08'53.171 Hortez gains 12 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
250 Hortez gains Flurry
281 Hortez's Windfury Attack crits Magtheridon for 3593
281 Hortez's Windfury Attack crits Magtheridon for 4171
546 Hortez's Melee hits Magtheridon for 501 (glancing)
11:08'54.406 Hortez's Melee crits Magtheridon for 2196
I believe it's been awhile since the main tanks have had a decent upgrade, but does tank threat scale much anyway? I try to keep a larger threat buffer between me and the tanks, but on trash, this isn't really feasible unless I want to start attacking when mobs are on 30% health. I am getting Salv (except on that Mag attempt because I assumed I wouldn't need it).
here is a quick question. Shammies can use 2H weapons obv if they spec it, but how useful it is compared to duel weapons? With WF proc better with slow weapons and stuff, whats the vs. between the two or is it just more of a leveling up spec?
I am getting Salv [b](except on that Mag attempt because I assumed I wouldn't need it)[b].
How do you better geared Shaman deal with threat?
Salv. Always. If you can only get 1 pally buff it should be salv, on any fight where threat matters anyway which is just about all of them. If you're getting salv and still having consistent aggro trouble you'll probably need to look at what your tanks are doing(or not doing).
Druid threat scales well with AP and crit. Warriors will stack block value for threat.
Originally Posted by panny
I am getting Salv (except on that Mag attempt because I assumed I wouldn't need it).
Ya there were a few attempts where it was rocky on threat even well after the last Channeler was down and the raid moved to Mag (no crits, lots of miss/dodge/parry) and I guess 1 Channeler worth of threat wasn't enough (misdirect will be useful here). No Salv would also help explain it.
Originally Posted by Shadow4089
here is a quick question. Shammies can use 2H weapons obv if they spec it, but how useful it is compared to duel weapons? With WF proc better with slow weapons and stuff, whats the vs. between the two or is it just more of a leveling up spec?
DW for PvE dps, 2h for PvP and playing around. I'm leveling a Shaman alt, and quite enjoyed the move from 2h to DW, stuff just dies so much quicker. Flurry uptime seems better (though I could be imagining it) and WF procs more consistently. 2h was way to bursty, like 2 shotting one mob then slogging at the next for 45 seconds. DW is also bursty, but not quite as much.
Ya there were a few attempts where it was rocky on threat even well after the last Channeler was down and the raid moved to Mag (no crits, lots of miss/dodge/parry) and I guess 1 Channeler worth of threat wasn't enough (misdirect will be useful here). No Salv would also help explain it.
I think you got a Misdirect anyway? Or was that during the next go? I vaguely remember calling for it.
Originally Posted by Morelis
Salv. Always. If you can only get 1 pally buff it should be salv, on any fight where threat matters anyway which is just about all of them. If you're getting salv and still having consistent aggro trouble you'll probably need to look at what your tanks are doing(or not doing).
The channelers are really the only hard part of the fight (not including getting five people to click cubes), and since the first channeler tank usually just burns all his taunts and all the other channerler/mag tanks have lots of time to build threat, I didn't think threat would've been an issue as I really didn't expect to get a ~10k threat spike in 2 seconds. Anyway, bosses aren't that big a problem, it's trash/adds that's the biggest issue.
At Mag i have no agro issue at all. My gear is not that great, but we got 2 bears tanking first adds, so i just pop Heroism as soon as they hit em and i can go all out from that.
My legs enchant is already bought and into my bag. I really don't like those legs, so i didn't want to use the enchant on them, cause is aways was like "Today i get x legs" and kept like that for 10 days by now...meh, think i should enchant it anyway. Was hoping for a Skulker or even my T4 legs anyway...
I already have the T4 head slot into my bag, just waiting to change it once i get another set part.
About the nuke, i aways look for mob back to nuke and try to keep aways at range the fastest i can. Maybe it was just the clicking duty at that time...but i can't understand why a so low DPS on Gruul...i do the shock rotation everytime, SS and so on...dunno why is that.
So u guys think my off-hand is eating that much procs and that's why my dps is so low?
Forgot the VR arcane balls. I said to my Raid leader i was going to do that move waving and he said i wouldn't be able to avoid all them and could kill all melees, so he obliged me to stay absorving all the pouncings.
Last edited by T.K. : 07/31/07 at 4:03 AM.
Reason: VR balls O.o
Finally got around to setting up my EJ profile tonight, so I only thought it proper to finally poke my head up from behind the fence and greet all my fellow Shamans-in-Arms. =)
I have been reading the boards for some time now, and have been very interested in the math and formulas everyone has been bringing to the table in helping to understand our wonky-style of DPS.
As some (to most) have been helpful, to the ideas and clearifications that I myself have come to the realizations of now; I am thankful. Keep doing the hard stuff so I can just lead my raids, and throw my farm animals at bosses.
Mushy stuff aside - I bring myself in light to the Shaman discussions to do my best to help further the understanding, and growth of our class. Do what you will with me. *bows*
And on that note: I apologize in advance for my trinkets being total suck. There are probably 4 DSTs on Lothar as a whole, and Heroics are a thing of the past which has me snuffed out shy 3 Badges for the Brooch. (Soon my darling...soon!)
note: All you leather Shamans make me giggle. ^_^*
ps: WTB Blizzard fixing Epic Gems showing up in the armory. /sigh
---
Now, to acctually be on topic. I pose this question that I may not have understood if it was discussed in earlier posts.
But it is something that I feel kind of goes against normal melee fuction.
Slower Offhand than Mainhand? ei; Dragonstike MH - Syphon of the Ninnies OH?
(Mainly; How does this effect Windfury? Swing Timers? Flurry?)
Having the Runic OH with a 2.7 MH is going to mess up your DPS a little bit regardless since its going to inevitably eat some WF cooldowns.
I'm currently gearing up for Kara and this has caused me a certain amount of consternation. Getting the arena points together for the Gladiator's axe will take me some weeks, so I've started gathering mats for a Runic Hammer in the meantime after reading the OP of this thread where it states that this is the second best OH outside of BT.
However, I'm currently using the Drakefist Hammer in my main hand, and I'm curious to know whether or not I'll get a higher overall DPS out of using one of the blue 71.7 dps heroic/battleground OHs than a Runic Hammer. Will the slower speed compensate for the 10 less dps on the weapon and the loss of AP?
I don't really want to spend any more time or gold on something that could turn out to hurt my DPS. :/
@bai - Just out of curiosity, why did you put 2 points in convection instead of imp ankh?
@TK - There's a baddass leather feral druid legs that drops from the final boss of heroic mana tombs. If you're farming for your WF totem you might as well go for it. I keep trying to justify taking them off (my only leather piece), but I probably won't replace them till T6.
i posted a comment about the wrath darkmoon card then found oodles of information more than i had thought of. My biggest problem with it is that you have to not crit in order to crit....what class/spec/living being wants that? now if only we could somehow fuse the crusade card and the wrath card so there was one card that increased crit rating with each crit, stacking x amount of times over x seconds and crits renew the effect and spell and melee crit is effected individually. it would scream enh shammy. oh to dream....
on a side note thanks to all of you for the excellent work of pulling all this together. always nice to know others actually think about how they play and how to play better after playing with so many noob filled pugs.
Last edited by Myrhar : 07/31/07 at 2:52 PM.
Reason: edited to not be redundant
I'm just starting to use my Shaman for an arena team and some of my team mates are asking me to use a two handed weapon. I'd love some feedback on Two handers Vs. Duel Wield when its comes to pvp.
Two handers are good for bursting down people with healers. I usually start out with a two hander, and then switch to DW when there are no more healers.
07/30/07, 3:49 PM
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