I could get SWS reports... Go and pick up the hit items, get SWS reports... And put it on "paper"... But I'm not really interrested if it's commonly accepted or not, nor am I interrested in picking up downgrades. It has proven true time and time again FOR ME that Hit is ridiculously overvalued on this site, and there has been no reasoning behind why it deserves the ridiculous stat weight it's given. Why not prove that it deserves the insane weight it has, rather than saying the math is right? I'm basing my claim on observations, while you're saying the unfounded math is correct when it contradicts commonly accepted theorycraft.


And who says it's correct? It has been wrong many times before. Oh... And one more thing... From the OP:

If that's not you saying hit rating is a lesser stat, then I don't know what is...

Madness comes out at 160 EP for me, BC is 150 and I have almost identical gear to both Sebudai and Illundai. (However I use the BC because I prefer it to madness due to not needing the hit, I run at 200+ hit rating already just from using "the best" item in each slot, and because I like heroism + BC on use).

I ran the sim x5 @ 10,000 hours and got an average of:

1 AP
1.98 Crit
1.79 Hit
1.88 Haste
0.34 Armor pen
2.2 Str
1.93 Agility
3.31 Expertise

Thats for mongoose/Mongoose setup (if you use Mon/exe you get different EP values for crit/agility).

Although I don't know why my crit/agility values are much higher than Sebudai's, maybe buffs.. leader of pack? I Never have a feral in the dps group so could be that.

Is it possible for you to get a WWS log of a raid or 2? You said earlier that you "get top 4 on dps", however with no numbers that means very little. For example you could be getting top 4 dmg with 1200 dps or top 4 dmg with 1800 dps and thats a huge difference.

If you want your theory to hold water you need to show some numbers.

Except I could post my own WWS of me undoubtedly doing more damage and since I have more hit rating I could somehow equate that to meaning hit rating is awesome. Shitty logic is shitty. Embrace the loving arms of math.

We really have come full circle. First, it's "rofl why rnt u hit capped?" Now, it's "hit is worthless lol nub!" Suffice to say that if you just don't value hit at all, you *may* end up with the right items at the endgame, but you *will* get some of the wrong items along the way. (Skipping out on Skulker's Greaves is a huge mistake, for example.)

This list is going to basically be consistent with any other shaman's list. (I.e. even though they have different customized EP values, these are just the best items in-game period.) S3 weapons are better than Syphons for any race. The only possible exceptions I see on your list are that Deadly Cuffs and Insidious Bands are functionally equivalent (honestly, it is roughly a 2 AP difference no matter how you socket), and Softstep are slightly better than Shadowmaster's if you are forced to socket with Rare-quality gems (instead of the Epic-quality gems that would be expected). I would also add that Shoulderpads of the Stranger only pull ahead of Shoulders of the Hidden Predator when socketed with an epic gem and the two items are really functionally equivalent as well.

I noticed you prefer Softstep and Fists of Mukoa, is this because you like wearing mail? The dilemma I face in choosing between these options and their leather near-equivalents is that the leather items do stack more Stamina and would probably produce more survivability in a raid environment, where IME armor is of little to no concern (and if you end up tanking something you throw a shield on until it can be taunted off of you). My guild is on Illidan at the moment, so I have seen most encounters that you have, but I don't have your level of gear to be able to say "oh, I've got plenty of stamina, no need to look for more."

Well I am sporting an interesting Dilemma. My gear has improved greatly over the last 3 weeks with the additions of Syphon, T5 Helm, Insidious Bands, Mantle of Darkness, Nether Shadow Tunic. While my overall DPS has increased I have noticed (through WWS) an additional increase in Melee misses by nearly 5%on some encounters. And an increase in misses with SS/WF by nearly 1-2%. My damage allocation seems to be right on between Melee/Specials/Shocks. I have some WWS from early this month where I added the Syphon, Mantle of Darkness and T5 Helm. But our RL hasn't posted WWS from the last 2 weeks, probably because we have been working on Archimonde alot. But I will try to get them.

My armory is probably showing my PVP gear from last night but I run with unbuffed 1676 AP, 19.65% Hit, 28.84% Crit. And Expertise rating of I believe 25 (Orc + Belt on One-Hundred deaths) and zero haste.

Any thoughts as to why my misses are increasing, but my DPS is also increasing? I replaced S1 Cleaver/S2 Hacker (Hence the FT attacks in WWS) in OH with the Syphon. And running W.E.P. in MH. Am I missing something, doing something wrong? I have tried to model after Malan, Sebudai, Yo, and Disquette. So I am a little perplexed by this indication. Is this a normal expectation that as the damage output increases as does the number of misses or potential misses?

WWS

Unless you're in Hyjal I don't even see how this is possible ...

your damage on Rage winterchill

6.2% miss on stormstrike??? Not possible... something/someone is screwing up your logs.

Armor rating does not impact miss chance.

On the other hand, "Banshee Curse" from Banshees in Hyjal trash packs sure does.

Armor rating has nothing to do with hit chance.

Are you using 3/3 DW spec and 3/3 natures guidance in your raid dps spec? If you are your stromstrike/WF have no chance to miss at all.

What WWS refers to as misses is in fact the amount of attacks that were missed, dodged or parried. So a 6.2% "miss" on Stormstrike could very well just mean that 6.2% of the Stormstrikes that were done were dodged.

I am 3/3 DW and 3/3 NG and was at 128 +Hit during these encounters.