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02/14/08, 12:50 PM
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#7066
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Shaman
Blackrock (EU)
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I don´t find it just now, but someone posted a Macro here which would be really interessting in Enhancement PvP it was something along the lines of
/castrandom Stormstrike, Purge(Rank2)
Now how does this work? Does it really choose randomly between those two spells and if so is there the chance that it does Purge instead of SS when CD is up? Because that would be really bad.
Is it possible to macro something that will SS anytime it is up and otherwise spam Purge on the target?
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Originaly posted by Sebudai
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Embrace the loving arms of math.
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02/14/08, 1:21 PM
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#7067
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sparks keep me warm
rava
Tauren Shaman
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Rhagok
I don´t find it just now, but someone posted a Macro here which would be really interessting in Enhancement PvP it was something along the lines of
/castrandom Stormstrike, Purge(Rank2)
Now how does this work? Does it really choose randomly between those two spells and if so is there the chance that it does Purge instead of SS when CD is up? Because that would be really bad.
Is it possible to macro something that will SS anytime it is up and otherwise spam Purge on the target?
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It really chooses randomly. Yes there is a chance that it will purge instead of SS.
I'm not 100% positive on this, but the macro you want is conditional(if/then) and not allowed as of whatever patch was before TBC. Two buttons is some harsh work, though!
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Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.
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02/14/08, 1:37 PM
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#7068
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Banned
Night Elf Rogue
Dark Iron
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..could someone please explain the bizarre logic behind the notion of NOT having any +hit beyond the usual 9% from talents? if white dmg is such a large % of your overall enhance raid dmg, then wouldnt it behoove you to be hitcapped as you would for any other class such as casters?
much ado is made of flurry. haste is godlike to be sure, but even a hasted attack can miss if youre not capped, and it likely will. the amount of dps youll do from a hasted attack that missed your target is 0.
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02/14/08, 1:47 PM
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#7069
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Shaman
Blackrock (EU)
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Oh and you forgot that missing attacks can´t proc WF oh and they can´t CRIT too ... lol ^^ this is going to be so funny as you are about the 1,450,257 person to ask this 8)
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Originaly posted by Sebudai
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Embrace the loving arms of math.
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02/14/08, 1:49 PM
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#7070
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Mike Tyson
Malan
Tauren Shaman
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Storming
..could someone please explain the bizarre logic behind the notion of NOT having any +hit beyond the usual 9% from talents? if white dmg is such a large % of your overall enhance raid dmg, then wouldnt it behoove you to be hitcapped as you would for any other class such as casters?
much ado is made of flurry. haste is godlike to be sure, but even a hasted attack can miss if youre not capped, and it likely will. the amount of dps youll do from a hasted attack that missed your target is 0.
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1. The 'bizarre logic' (as you put it) is clearly laid out in the first post in the Hit Rating section.
2. Nowhere, and never, has anyone in this community ever suggested that you take no hit beyond 9%. You have grossly misread the information here.
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02/14/08, 1:52 PM
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#7071
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Von Kaiser
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Not only does the OP explain that hit rating, while somewhat useful, does not contribute as much to our dps as other stats such as AP and crit, but it also explains that haste rating is not nearly as useful as AP or crit either.
Hit is useful, it's not like you're avoiding it. It's just, other stats have a higher priority.
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02/14/08, 2:13 PM
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#7072
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Banned
Night Elf Rogue
Dark Iron
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Wow, Malan himself. Much as you're likely tired of hearing it, kudos on the thread. It really is excellent stuff, through and through.
Moving right along.. lets ignore WF and crit. I never said anything about those in particular anyway.
I've read the OP, over and over and over. However, no logical justification is presented for not being hitcapped. Yes its true that our yellow dmg is capped from the 9% we get from our talents. Its true that other classes don't enjoy this situation, yes. However this in no way provides any logical premise that talented hit is 'good enough' and white dmg is to relegated to second fiddle just because our yellow dmg is capped.
So basically you're saying, BECAUSE specials are capped (and partly BECAUSE ap and crit apply to both white and yellow dmg), that's a reason to put all your eggs in that particular basket and let the white dmg fall where it may, and if you miss here and there, then whatever?
I'm really quite tired of my guild parroting back at me the stuff they read on this website, but it's as though they don't THINK about what they read. You're basically saying, its ok not to be hitcapped. But why? Just because our specials already are, as of the 9% from talents?
Saying 'it just is' isn't good enough. What logical justification could there possibly be to walk into a raid below the hitcap? Does any other class tolerate that? If a lock steps into BT with 130 hit about how long would it be before they're laughed out the door?
Crit has nothing to do with it, ditto for flurry/haste, etc. I'm not concerned with the whiz-bang dmg, not crit or haste or anything else, just plain hit/miss. Yes crit and ap are important, since strength works the same for us as for warriors, essentially. But what about the small percentage of dmg that you lose due to misses while being under the hitcap?
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02/14/08, 2:17 PM
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#7073
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Von Kaiser
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Let's not ignore WF and crit. If our class only did white damage noncrit, your arguement might be valid, but that's not how our damage works.
Hit affects only white damage. AP, crit, and expertise affect all of our physical damage (and an insignificant amount of our shock damage).
Most warriors I know aren't stressing to get hit capped either.
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02/14/08, 2:22 PM
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#7074
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Piston Honda
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I think you are still misinterpreting the original post.
At no point it says that you should avoid hit. Just that it is less valuable then other stats.
Let's imagine you have to choose between two pieces of gear: one with 100 ap and 20 crit, and the other with 100ap and 20 hit: the piece that will yield the greatest increase in dps is the one with crit. Hit wont affect your specials, while crit will. Now, if you have the to choose between the same 100ap/20crit and a piece with 100ap/40hit, the latter is better.
It is never about absolutes, just relative weights.
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02/14/08, 2:30 PM
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#7075
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Mike Tyson
Malan
Tauren Shaman
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Storming
However, no logical justification is presented for not being hitcapped
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Why would we need to justify something that we never claim?
Personally I'd love to be hit capped, but I'm not going to sacrifice AP and Crit to get there.
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02/14/08, 2:31 PM
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#7076
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Banned
Night Elf Rogue
Dark Iron
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Originally Posted by Diogo
I think you are still misinterpreting the original post.
At no point it says that you should avoid hit. Just that it is less valuable then other stats.
Let's imagine you have to choose between two pieces of gear: one with 100 ap and 20 crit, and the other with 100ap and 20 hit: the piece that will yield the greatest increase in dps is the one with crit. Hit wont affect your specials, while crit will. Now, if you have the to choose between the same 100ap/20crit and a piece with 100ap/40hit, the latter is better.
It is never about absolutes, just relative weights.
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i never said the OP specifically proposed to not bother with hit beyond talents.
i understand the concept of some situations showing stats to be greater overall benefit than hit. thats not what im talking about either.
im talking about justification for not being hitcapped. so far im seeing alot of it, round-the-back circular logic for walking into a raid knowing you're gonna miss X% of your attacks. if i were raid leader, id call that unacceptable just as would be the case for a caster walking in without the usual 202.
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02/14/08, 2:32 PM
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#7077
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Piston Honda
Tauren Shaman
Baelgun (EU)
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As a follow-up to Diogo's comment, there is a theoretical point in the itemization where you would naturally become hit-capped because your total item budget would be so large that hit-capping would be an optimal use of that budget. However, we aren't at the ilvl where that would happen, and it is unlikely that it ever will with current mechanics. Simply put, between AP/Str, Crit, Agi, hit, expertise, haste, and hit, there are just too many stats to dump itemization points into, and a number of them give better returns per point than +hit, assuming that your gear is relatively balanced.
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02/14/08, 2:37 PM
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#7078
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Von Kaiser
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We aren't casters. Each spell a caster uses is affected by being hitcapped. Casters also require less hit rating to become hit capped compared to a dual wield class, and spell hit and melee hit cost equal in the item budget.
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02/14/08, 2:41 PM
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#7079
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Shaman
Blackrock (EU)
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I'm not concerned with the whiz-bang dmg, not crit or haste or anything else, just plain hit/miss.
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In this situation you are definitel right, if you do not account for dmg just for Hits and misses then definitely hit is a great stat ^^
If however you are just trying to do as much dmg as possible you should not gimp yourself so massively by choosing gear with lots of hit if there is better gear available.
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Originaly posted by Sebudai
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Embrace the loving arms of math.
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02/14/08, 2:41 PM
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#7080
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Paid $25 To Raid
Draenei Shaman
Burning Blade
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Originally Posted by Storming
im talking about justification for not being hitcapped. so far im seeing alot of it, round-the-back circular logic for walking into a raid knowing you're gonna miss X% of your attacks. if i were raid leader, id call that unacceptable just as would be the case for a caster walking in without the usual 202.
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And that's why you're not raid leader?
Seriously, though. You don't need to provide justification for "not being hitcapped". You don't prove a negative. What you do is provide justification for being hitcapped. So far nobody has proven that doing so will produce better damage than not being hitcapped, because with current itemization it simply does not.
Here is an explanation for why pursuing hitcap is an unproductive strategy for enhancement shamans:
If you have 9% +hit from talents, or ~50 hit rating and 6% +hit from talents, your "yellow" attacks (Windfury and Stormstrike) will never miss. Therefore, hit rating affects only about 50% of your damage. Critical strike rating affects 90% of your damage, so it delivers better returns. Strength (and attack power) affect 100% of your damage, so they deliver the best returns.
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