Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 491

rava · 02/23/08, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Genzou

I managed 2.86 on live with Dragonstrike and no BL. I'm guessing those numbers are due to server/client latency and not haste affecting the cd on WF

That's pretty much what I expected. It would have been a nice change, though.

Genshoku · 02/23/08, 12:43 PM

Hey guys,
Long time troller of the EJ forums, first time poster. Thanks for all the work everyone has put into the Shaman theorycrafting, nothing better than empircal data to ensure you're putting out the highest dps possible.

I have a question about haste mechanics and figured this would be the best place to ask as it pertains to the shaman class in specific.

Givens:
Weapon speed - 2.8 (siphon)/ 2.6 (rising tide)
Full t6 equivalent gear minus a couple slots (Main spec is resto)

When a weapon is hasted to a lower speed it obviously increases white damage done, but does the proc modifier haste with it? I.e. a 2.8 speed weapon has a higher chance to proc mongoose/executioner, does the %to proc scale with real time swing speed or does it keep its 2.8 value? Also is windfury based off of the same proc system or, after the 3 second timer is up is attack speed negated and any hit has the same chance to proc a windfury, regardless of swing speed?

Thanks in advance

Urstroyer · 02/23/08, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Genzou

I managed 2.86 on live with Dragonstrike and no BL. I'm guessing those numbers are due to server/client latency and not haste affecting the cd on WF

anyone tried this with haste potions, if haste ratings affects the cd we should see a difference. if not it could probably be a server latancy issue.

Pitbuller · 02/23/08, 12:54 PM

Can someone test this(wf cd haste scaling) without flurry and haste gear/procs. If then test shows under 3s results we could just point to lag.

oglas · 02/23/08, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Disquette

I am, for one, VERY SKEPTICAL of stuff like this, given how badly lag plays with the combat log.
If haste affected WF's cooldown, then DST should make more than a (2.93 - 2.79) / 2.93 = 4.7% difference.
Moreover, as lag could easily explain this stuff, I'd want to see averages versus averages, not one minimum being less than another minimum.

Problem is, to see if the haste thing DOES affect the WF cooldown, we would need some EXTENSIVE testing (more than 6 hours AT THE VERY LEAST). All these 15ish minute tests we did prove nothing.

For example... Lets say haste does reduce WF cooldown by same amount it reduces time between swings... So DST would reduce the minimum time between WFs to i.e. 2.5 sec... It would take quite a lot of swings to get 1 swing at 0.0 sec and then another one at exactly 2.51 sec. If it would even be possible to get them so precise. First we'd need to know weapon attack speed, calculate the closest possible number to the one we get with calculating minimum time between two windfury attacks. then take into account that WF procs only 1/5 swings in average. Messy.

Also, my in-game ping was 56 ms, addon showed windfury procced 210 ms "earlier", not quite sure how big the server lag
is, so I will not make any big statements until someone does get a bigger gap or some combat log proof.

Urstroyer · 02/23/08, 1:45 PM

I run some test with the windfury timer now and here are the results.

Hitting a blasted lands mob for about 30 minutes with all 37 haste rating on gear, haste potions, drums of war and troll berserk i wasn't able to beat the lowest cooldown 2.74 seconds. my ping was at 26ms at this moment, so i assume the reason is a latency issue.

to confirm that, i tabbed in windows and back to wow a couple of times to simulate a client -> server lag and the addon gave me some freaky numbers:

Weem · 02/23/08, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

[e] In an excellent change, Blizzard has reduced the mat requirements for some of the crafted items and removed the Sunmotes from them! http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...sundusk_v2.jpg

They increased the requirements and removed the Sunmotes from the chest and replaced them with nethers.

Old: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...duskshadow.jpg
New: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...sundusk_v2.jpg

Mox · 02/23/08, 2:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gehenna

Assuming everyone will be using a shard of contempt, it is worth mentioning that using T6 shoulders and the 3 new T6 items less viable now due to the combination of items giving you 112 expertise. something like 9 expertise wasted stat points.

Well it's not really 9 wasted points, because theres alot of bosses that twist/turn to cast spells and other times when hitting a boss from front for afew secs is unavoidable. So while it may be wasted on dodge reduction, still "kinda" useful for parry prevention.

CeNo65 · 02/23/08, 2:47 PM

so pissed right now

12 gold FTL

Malan · 02/23/08, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by Weem

They increased the requirements and removed the Sunmotes from the chest and replaced them with nethers.

Yah sorry that wasn't clear of me. I meant that they reduced the need for the sunmotes, making them easier to craft overall.

HirayaTube · 02/23/08, 6:38 PM

Before I bring up my topic, I want to mention that I did what I could to comb the forums with the search option to see if this had been brought up before, not just on the enhance shaman thread but on the entire forums, but from what I gathered it doesn't seem to have been yet.

Okay, I know the tests have been done and it has been formulated that twohanders are inferior to dual wielding due to twohanders having far less uptime on UR and flurry, but I wonder... if one were to stack enough haste rating, could it increase the uptime of flurry and UR to the point where it would make twohanded a viable option for raid dps? Mind you, I'm not bringing this up as an advocate of twohanders, I'm just curious if this is an avenue that has been explored yet.

Bragor · 02/23/08, 6:47 PM

Why do you even consider that ?

Won't the same effect also apply to DW weapons too ?

Gehenna · 02/23/08, 6:54 PM

No, there is basically no way on the face of wow to make 2 handers even trod into the range of viable.

Haste seems tempting, but it's actually better for DW when you consider it is working on 2 weapons and not 1.

Lastly, the although shamanistic rage may be an issue, flurry isn't, flurry uptime is based on crit % anyway.

HirayaTube · 02/23/08, 7:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bragor

Why do you even consider that ?

Won't the same effect also apply to DW weapons too ?

My reasoning was that since it would be a twohander, you could forgo anything with +hit gear and not have to worry about having that 100'ish hit rating. But again I'm not married to the idea, it was just a thought. If there's no way it would ever work out, so be it. But I at least wanted to see what others thought of it, that's all.

Gehenna · 02/23/08, 7:16 PM

you get basically 6 free hit from talents, so you don't need to devote anything to + hit if you don't want to. With a two hander equipped i miss.