Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 500

frozndevl · 02/28/08, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by drats

To deal with mana problems during fights I bound WS to my side mouse button and spam it when I have a GCD free. Ofcourse, when they fix WS that'll be out the door, but for now it seems to get me through fights where mana is an issue. I look forward to getting 800-1000 mana back from one SR proc, it might make it worth it to swap in windfuried daggers while SR is going on.

When you say "fix WS" what are you referring to? As far as I have seen it is still working as it has been.

Disquette · 02/28/08, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Kyuki

As for the latest PTR changes, I really think they are good. If they are truly trying to balance this game, there is no point in giving us someting "OP" as what Disquette suggest for example.

I'll readily admit I'm not a hardcore, or even decent, pvp'er. My issue, in a theoretical sense, is that the changes seem to be akin to moving the branches 4" away from Tantalus instead of 8". But I think from here on I'll stop commenting until I can actually try it.

Toots Hepcat · 02/28/08, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Seidule

Has anybody done any math to determine what professions would be best at an endgame level?

I'm thinking enchanting (2x ring enchants) and JC (+24 ap gem, etc).

Blacksmithing and Leatherworking both offer access to craftables that will help you save your DKP, but neither offer best-in-game items anymore. (Fingers crossed for a major upgrade for Dragonstrike).

However, Leatherworking allows access to drums of battle, which is the equivalent of 20 haste rating. 36.4 EP

2x Ring enchant is worth 8 STR 8 AGI that no other profession gets. 31.12 EP

JC offers a single 12 STR (vs 10 STR from a BCS) gem. 4 EP.

In summary: BS/Leatherworking will get you geared a little easier. If getting gear is not an issue, Leatherworking/Enchanting will give you a 67 EP edge.

Ardonomus · 02/28/08, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Seidule

Has anybody done any math to determine what professions would be best at an endgame level?

I'm thinking enchanting (2x ring enchants) and JC (+24 ap gem, etc).

Any thoughts?

Come 2.4 my values show at least two LW items that are top of the line, so LW still goes strong in my opinon. I regret spending the time and money leveling BS now though.

Vernichter · 02/28/08, 11:10 AM

Seidule, this post from earlier in the thread gives an approximate break-down of the newly introduced Sunwell gear. Note that it was made before the updates to the T6 wrists, boots, and belt. I don't see any way for enchanting to beat out leatherworking in terms of end-game return. [Carapace of Sun and Shadow] is very close to best in slot, and [Gloves of Immortal Dusk] are by far the best in slot. Add the benefit of drums and leatherworking should be a clear best profession for the Sunwell.

Illundai · 02/28/08, 11:15 AM

I'm on PTR right now, twisting is still possible and it's ridiculously easy now with the new GCD. We're raiding Felmyst tonight, so we'll see how the new Shamanistic Rage works out but I'm expecting a similiar, perhaps little less mana regained from it. They had to shorten the duration when they made it undispellable, it would've been ridiculously OP in PvP.

frozndevl · 02/28/08, 12:30 PM

One thing I would be interested to see is if this new FT debuff will have an impact on PVE. Admittedly, I don't do much high end raiding, but if the MS effect also works on NPCs then it might be viable in that situation as well. This would reduce our overall output in dps, but wouldn't this fill our main role of "enhancing" the rest of the raid in specific fights? Throwing a 1.5 speed OH with flametongue into the defaults of Yo!'s sim reduces overall DPS by about 50.

Malan · 02/28/08, 12:41 PM

There aren't many fights that require a healing debuff though, and most that do can also be interrupted. Yah you can get 5 seconds of reduced healing on Najentus, maybe some lowered healing on Anetheron. That's about it for T6 content really.

Yakout · 02/28/08, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

JC offers a single 12 STR (vs 10 STR from a BCS) gem. 4 EP.

This is actually not true. There is, alas, no JC-only +Str gem (JC BoP gems); we must as usual settle for AP. However, that's not the only perk we have from JC pre-2.4; we also have [Stone of Blades], which when stuck in the right yellow socket (e.g., [Insidious Bands]) can outperform a BCS, counts as a yellow stone for RED activation, and doesn't take a CS to cut.

2.4 shall also bring the [Choker of Endless Nightmares]-with-Stamina, [Hard Khorium Choker] (another fine candidate for socketing a SoB), as well as [Figurine - Shadowsong Panther] for those lower in progression or to whom the RNG has been particularly cruel in terms of trinket drops.

bruster · 02/28/08, 1:19 PM

Has anyone done the path PvP wise for 2.4? That is if the changes last night will stay that way.

Would it be better to use a fast OH and FT now with the healing debuff? Or would it still be smarter to stay with the slow off hand with FT, plus if you're against dps team you could keep WF on the OH.

Malan · 02/28/08, 1:26 PM

There's a pvp thread dedicated to that, direct your reading there.

Experiment · 02/28/08, 2:10 PM

Here's a quick link to the Enhancement PvP thread, it's linked to where the weapon speed and FT was mentioned with regards to the new patch...there's a lot of other little tid-bits on using a fast weapon and FT running around in many, many other locations.

[Shaman] PvP + Enhancement = ?

Conversation on weapon speeds looks to have started around post 366, no for sure answer yet. Looks like it will generally be up to personal prefference.

drats · 02/28/08, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by frozndevl

When you say "fix WS" what are you referring to? As far as I have seen it is still working as it has been.

Right now you can spam WS and gain more than 50mp5 from it, due to the fact that it gives mana back right when it's cast. I suspect this is not 'working as intended' and will be fixed at some point in the future.

@Seidule: When 2.4 hits I'm guessing JC/Leatherworking will be the best combination. Leatherworking for Drums and BOP gear, and JC for the SWP neck and epic BOP gems. Note: this is speculation until we've seen the full Sunwell loot table.

[e] Here's the JC neck I was talking about: Hard Khorium Choker - Items - World of Warcraft. There's also a nice haste ring, but I don't think it's better than the MH one: Hard Khorium Band - Items - World of Warcraft

Disquette · 02/28/08, 3:01 PM

First: THANK YOU Hedin! <3 for the combat log help in the mod.

Second: The two different events - WF Mainhand Proc and WF Offhand Proc have separate event IDs in the combatlog. Now it will be a lot easier if people want to track stuff like that. (Note, I can't confirm what I just wrote, but so far event 33750 is always an offhand WF proc, and event 25504 is always a mainhand windfury. So, statistically that looks like a good bet so far).

I'm having a lot of fun with the new combat log stuff. Hedin Rocks.

Toots Hepcat · 02/28/08, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by Yakout

However, that's not the only perk we have from JC pre-2.4; we also have [Stone of Blades]

Which is 1 EP better than Inscribed Pyrestone (20.8 EP vs. 19.7 EP).

Along with the +24 AP vs the BCS, which with kings is 22 AP (benefit 2 AP), total endgame benefit of JC gems: 3 EP

With the T6 EP values, [Hard Khorium Choker] is 26 EP better than [Clutch of Demise], both are better than [Choker of Endless Nightmares]. So JC is worth about 29 EP in the very top of the endgame; still be better off with LW/Enchanting.

However, at the not-quite-the-endgame, it could be pretty valuable -- the Hard Khorium neck is 55 EP better than the best neck in Black Temple.