Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 502

Kween · 02/29/08, 2:39 AM

"Enhacement Shaman have four sources of damage:

* Windfury, a weapon imbue that gives the shaman a 20% proc of two instant attacks with a substantial AP bonus
* Stormstrike, a 10s cooldown instant attack with both weapons
* Elemental Shocks, shared cooldown instant elemental damage offering stealth prevention, snaring or interruption
* Fire Totems, pulsed direct or AoE fire damage"

I am concerned about the fire totems. They are used to help overall damage but does it count as the actual Shaman dps? Or is it just another damaging agent? I guess I never really built up my fire totems..I think searing totem does what? 40 damage capped? Always seemed a bit weak to me. Any help is greatly appreciated. Oh and very nice work everyone who was involved in this. Helps me bunches.

goddi23a · 02/29/08, 3:07 AM

Well, It depends on the tool you use to measure the dps if fire Totems are added to your dps.

But they do some nice dmg, even if you havent spec them through elemental talents.

Some wws Data, MH Azalgor trash waves:

Ability	             Hits  	Avg
Magma Totem          1158       133
Searing  	     210	169
Fire Nova 	     353	767

Don't forget the spelldmg you gain through MentalQ. !
( And with S.Rage you should have enough mana to set an Nova Totem on nearly every CD. )

P.S.Edit:
But what else can you do with the fire totem slot; FT is useless if WF totem is up ( witch is in most cases ) and FrostR. only make sense in a few encounters.

Kween · 02/29/08, 3:13 AM

Ah looks pretty good. Yeah I will usually drop down Magma but Fire Nova is way expensive and Searing..I dunno I may have to pick it up.

Thanks.

Mindrila · 02/29/08, 3:15 AM

My searing totem does about 50-75 DPS depending on actual attackpower. So its another 5% DPS which is easy to get. If you are using Recount as damagemeter, your totems won't show up because it's not save tracking them with the current combatlog. The author tries to get it to work with 2.4 when the new combatlog allows better tracking.

Ragzhi · 02/29/08, 3:16 AM

Originally Posted by Kween

"Enhacement Shaman have four sources of damage:

* Windfury, a weapon imbue that gives the shaman a 20% proc of two instant attacks with a substantial AP bonus
* Stormstrike, a 10s cooldown instant attack with both weapons
* Elemental Shocks, shared cooldown instant elemental damage offering stealth prevention, snaring or interruption
* Fire Totems, pulsed direct or AoE fire damage"

I am concerned about the fire totems. They are used to help overall damage but does it count as the actual Shaman dps? Or is it just another damaging agent? I guess I never really built up my fire totems..I think searing totem does what? 40 damage capped? Always seemed a bit weak to me. Any help is greatly appreciated. Oh and very nice work everyone who was involved in this. Helps me bunches.

Well, it depends on who you ask, if you just look at the damage meters, it wont say that it's you're damage since it can't seperate your totem from any other shaman's totem. But if you hadn't been there dropping that totem, there wouldn't be some 40 dps on the boss for almost no effort.

So no, it wont show (unless someone know that you're the only one using searing totem & merging it to you on WWS) but it's still you're damage.

[E] Beaten.

Grekk · 02/29/08, 4:07 AM

This is interesting as i was just about to make a post about this.

I've noticed recently that with Double Mongoose Procs, Flurry, and a rogue popping Drums of Battle, or me using Bloodlust my weapon speed drops perilously close to 1.5.

If i use BL whilst the drums are up it goes below 1.5 So atm i am waiting for the drums to run out before using BL. I never use my Haste pots anymore, and am wondering whether to either get Executioner enchanted in the offhand, even though i don't have all that much armour penetration, and whether to use Insane Strengths instead of Haste Pots, as like i said i'm very close to dropping below 1.5 weapon speed in my offhand (Not a prob for Main as it's Syphon with 2.8 speed)

I think there is some misunderstanding here.
Haste potions will ALWAYS increase you dps, and they will do even more so when you are on BL, as will drums.

Again, even if a plateau at 1.5s wasn't a myth (which it is), you won't spend enough time there to notice.

this is EJ, it's not really important if you NOTICE an increase, just whether it is there.

To build my post around drums and haste potions probably wasn't a good idea, so i will try a different approach.

Image you were to face Brutallus (6 minute fight) and you had to choose which bracers to wear.
Now imagine without bracers you had enough passive haste (around 15% i think) that your Mainhand will be just above 1.5 under the following conditions:

- you have Flurry
- you have BL/Hero up

Now let us assume I were to choose between the following two items:
[Master Assassin Wristwraps]
[Bindings of Lightning Reflexes]

using my stat weights: Loot Rank

leads me to the conclusion, that [Bindings of Lightning Reflexes] should be better by 5.24 AEP

In my last post I calculated that I would loose 22 dps for the duration of time, that I spend below 1.5.
Now let's see what happens if I choose [Bindings of Lightning Reflexes].

- I gain 142.25 AEP which should be around 49.7 DPS for the whole duration of the fight
- I loose 22 dps for 40s/360s = 11% of the fight which equals a loss of 2.44 DPS over the whole fight

We see that considering the loss we actually only gain 47.26 DPS which is 135.33 AEP which is LESS than we gain from
[Master Assassin Wristwraps] (137.01 AEP).

Tristan · 02/29/08, 6:11 AM

Originally Posted by Mindrila

Neck
+48 Stamina
+22 Hitrating
+21 weapon expertise

The Enhancer value is just the hitrating (22*1.65=36.3)

So Enhancer is bugged and has to be fixed for correct evaluation of weapon expertise.

Enhancer has no logic to get get bonuses from items in it, instead it uses ItemBonusLib (on of the many ace libraries) for that. Possibly it doesn't capture the expertise if you're using a locale other then enUS or you have no value assigned to expertise? Either way I can't reproduce the error, both Enhancer and EquivalencePoints pick up the expertise for me:

(Ignore the gem just chugged an old gem I had lying around untill I get a resil gem)

Mindrila · 02/29/08, 6:42 AM

Yes I'm using deDE as locale.

Thanks for the hint, I'll go check the ItemBonusLib.

Edit:
Ok I've changed my ItemBonusLib so that weapon expertise is properly recognized for deDE. Now it works fine. Thank you.

Aksing · 02/29/08, 9:47 AM

Originally Posted by Grekk

We see that considering the loss we actually only gain 47.26 DPS which is 135.33 AEP which is LESS than we gain from
[Master Assassin Wristwraps] (137.01 AEP).

So, essentially what you're saying is I shouldn't worry about dropping below 1.5 if it is via the useage of Haste Pots, BL, drums, or mongoose procs, but that i shouldn't take haste gear (which i don't anyway).

I ran Yo!'s sim for 5000 hours with my stats and with my gear the EP values came back as haste being worth 1.96 and hit and crit at 1.97 with ofc strength at 2.2 and expertise being 3.53 or something.

I know what i'm aiming for in Sunwell, and the new T6 pieces do have some haste rating on them. According to Yo!'s the haste rating is worth alot of EP atm, but as you just mentioned actually some pieces with haste can result in a loss of dps. So should a trade off be made? If i get the T6 pieces with haste on for example, should i lose some haste elsewhere by saying for example losing a mongoose for an executioner, to minimise the time spent at under 1.5 speed?

Seidule · 02/29/08, 9:56 AM

Originally Posted by Weem

I have it built into my twisting macro. I can't say I've noticed the extra mana (our pallies have been pretty good with JoW) or an increase in shock damage. I'll try and pay attention tonight.

Is anybody willing to share their Enh macros with the group?

I use a basic twisting/stormstrike cycle macro for my main button smash, a totem cycle macro to drop earth/fire/water, and a shock cycle macro to go between ES and FS. I'd like to know if anyone has something more advanced that:

- Uses drums when they are up
- Uses Haste pot when it is up
- Makes twisting more efficient than just cycling WF,GoA,SS.

Thanks!

Malan · 02/29/08, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Aksing

to minimise the time spent at under 1.5 speed?

How many posts does it take of people saying stop worrying about the haste effect before you start reading them?

Toots Hepcat · 02/29/08, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Aksing

So, essentially what you're saying is I shouldn't worry about dropping below 1.5 if it is via the useage of Haste Pots, BL, drums, or mongoose procs, but that i shouldn't take haste gear (which i don't anyway).

No, what we're all saying -- what we've ALWAYS been saying -- is use the simulator, know your EP values and gear accordingly. The simulator will test your hast pots, BL, drums, mongoose, Troll berzerking, Dragonstrike, passive haste, etc etc, and give passive hast a value based on how much additional DPS it brings to the table.

You shouldn't worry about 1.5s because it MEANS NOTHING. And if it did mean something, the simulator would discover it and adjust your EP accordingly. Trust the simulator, it's a decent analyst and good at math.

Experiment · 02/29/08, 11:27 AM

Quoted from the 1st post just in case...

It is no longer believed that the 1.5 to 1.4 hasted speed will actually cause any decrease in DPS - you should notice an overall increase.

---

That being said, since it's been noted that so many of the new items from the 2.4 patch will give Expertise, does it have a point at which it stops being useful? I would assume since Expertise and hit rating impact dodge reduction...if I'm following this right...that it would stop being useful right around the same point as +hit? Unless I'm constantly standing in front of the Mob during a raid of course.

I'm sorry, but of all the sections in the 1st post, the Expertise section is the most confusing. If someone has another way to explain it then that would be helpful. It might just be a lack of exposure on my end. I did research on other forums and WoWWiki and such, and came up with Expertise of 103 from the non Human or Orc non talented listing on the Roguecraft 101 thread...not rating, just Expertise.

This is from the roguecraft 101 thread...
The purpose of listing the caps here is so that you do not accidentally overshoot either cap by equipping too much hit rating or expertise rating. Always remember that any hit rating or expertise rating beyond the cap will have zero positive effect on your DPS.

What sort of cap would we aim not to overshoot as Shamans? If this was mentioned in the last 302 pages then I missed it. At a certain point that stat can't be weighed as high as it starts out, right?...

Sorry for the confusion...

Gehenna · 02/29/08, 11:29 AM

Like you say, roguecraft says not to get more than 103.

That should make a boss encounter unable to dodge you.

So i would say get 103...

Malan · 02/29/08, 11:31 AM

It stops being useful at the point where you cap your anti-dodge, ~5-6% against a boss.
(Was that really so hard to figure out?)