Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 503

Experiment · 02/29/08, 11:34 AM

Thank you. I wanted to make sure the 103 or 5-6% usefullness limit posted there applied to us as well. Should that be included in the main post since it will become more of a concern with this patch?

Toots Hepcat · 02/29/08, 11:37 AM

If I'm not mistaken, 5.6% is the max dodge of l73 mobs. Because expertise is calculated in .25% chunks, after 5.75% dodge reduction you'll see NO benefit from expertise. 5.75% * (.25% dodge reduction/Experise) = 23 Expertise * (3.96 ER / Expertise) = 91 Expertise Rating.

Where the heck did they get 103? That would be a dodge of 6.5%. One of us is dyslexic (probably me).

In PvP, maybe stacking more will help against evading rogues and prot warriors. But not as much as good ole' AP, I imagine.

Experiment · 02/29/08, 11:49 AM

....they say 6.5%

Your base chance to be dodged by a raid boss with any attack is thought to be 6.5%. For each 3.94 expertise rating you equip, you gain 1 expertise, reducing your chance to be dodged by 0.25% (thus it takes exactly 15.77 expertise rating to reduce your chance to be dodged by 1%). Thus, we can calculate expertise caps for various combinations of talents and racial abilities:

0/2 Weapon Expertise, non-Human: 103

WoWWiki states 5.6% according to the below...

A Boss-mobs parry is increased by 0.04 for every point of weapon skill it has over your level based defense, and its dodge is increased by 0.04 for every point of level based defense it has over your level based defense. At level 70 you have 350 level based defense. At level 73 a Boss-mob has 365 level based Defense and Weapon Skill, giving it 0.04*15 additional parry and dodge %. Meaning it gains 0.6% to Dodge and Parry. Ontop of it's base 5% parry, this gives a total of 5.6%. To negate 5.6% dodge and parry 23 points of expertise (or 89.7 points of expertise rating) are needed.

I'm going to go with the 5.6, and they're Dyslexic, not you.

Toots Hepcat · 02/29/08, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Experiment

I'm going to go with the 5.6, and they're Dyslexic, not you.

I've always thought that about rogues.

However, don't put too much trust in Wowwiki -- they claim you need 23 Expertise, that it's 3.94 ER per Expertise, and 89.7 ER to attain it. 23*3.94 is 90.62, not 89.7.

Hedin · 02/29/08, 12:39 PM

Made the addon that changes your weapons 1.5 seconds before SS CD ends to 2hand and when SS CD starts - back to DW. Going to try it today in raid - wish me luck :-)

Malan · 02/29/08, 12:41 PM

... what? Why in the hell would you do that? DW provides more SS damage. Go read the Enhancement pvp thread.
Its also going to reset your swing timer twice.

Hedin · 02/29/08, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

... what? Why in the hell would you do that? DW provides more SS damage. Go read the Enhancement pvp thread.
Its also going to reset your swing timer twice.

Yep, not as good as in PvP but if you change only totems you will be getting stronger WFs from SS with [Totem of the Astral Winds] and some AP from shocks with [Stonebreaker's Totem] and will not get reset of swing timer...
BTW it will force you not to Shock befor 1.5 of SS CD end...

rava · 02/29/08, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Hedin

Yep, not as good as in PvP but if you change only totems you will be getting stronger WFs from SS with [Totem of the Astral Winds] and some AP from shocks with [Stonebreaker's Totem] and will not get reset of swing timer...
BTW it will force you not to Shock befor 1.5 of SS CD end...

So you reset your swing timer and lose out on at least 2 white hits and reset your swing timer each time you equip a different totem all for the sake of a chance at bigger numbers?

Hedin · 02/29/08, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by rava

So you reset your swing timer and lose out on at least 2 white hits and reset your swing timer each time you equip a different totem all for the sake of a chance at bigger numbers?

Why should you get reset of swing timer if you don't change weapons? As far as I see changing totems don't reset it or am I wrong?

• Shalas · 02/29/08, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by Hedin

Why should you get reset of swing timer if you don't change weapons? As far as I see changing totems don't reset it or am I wrong?

Changing the item equipped in your ranged weapon slot counts as changing a weapon, which is why you can do it at all.

Malan · 02/29/08, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hedin

Yep, not as good as in PvP but if you change only totems you will be getting stronger WFs from SS with [Totem of the Astral Winds] and some AP from shocks with [Stonebreaker's Totem] and will not get reset of swing timer...
BTW it will force you not to Shock befor 1.5 of SS CD end...

But you didn't say that you were changing totems, you said you were changing from DW to 2H, which is what I said was silly.

drats · 02/29/08, 2:32 PM

[e] Beaten

Hedin · 02/29/08, 3:30 PM

/cry
Totem relics do reset swing timer... I was so close :-(

Rapparee · 02/29/08, 4:36 PM

I hate being super lazy... but I'm not well versed in the losses these other classes would endure in the following situation.

Let's say you're a raid leader and are interested in keeping a 50% healing debuff on that tricky demon, Anetheron.

As near as I can tell, a generic raid leader has 4 choices:
warrior using mortal strike
rogue using wound poison
hunter using aimed shot
shaman using flame tongue

Which of these when tasked with keeping the healing debuff active, reduces the overall raid damage the least?

Some assumptions to make:
1. Each one is in an optimized group for them to otherwise do maximum dps.
2. None of them suck, die often, have crappy gear. They're all perfect raiders, top of the line choices.

My gut feeling is that the hunter applying the debuff will have the least impact to the raid

choices you can't use...
some resto shaman drops flametongue totem + flametongue weapon and that shaman+ 3 other healers in the group allow random auto-attacks to apply the debuff.
The shaman in the tank group drops flametongue and the tank keeps the debuff up all the time. ( to me this is the obvious choice to take, but that's not a very challenging task for you folks to theorize about).

Kalince · 02/29/08, 4:57 PM

Given I am not an expert on warrior pve mechanics but I would think MS is never not on cooldown for them to do their best damage. How is it any choice but the MS warrior?