That first post is beautiful, Malan. I haven't looked at the first page of this thread since it was a mere child at 12 pages long or so. I'm very impressed with what you've done with it.
Just a public "thank you"
Bah, I just steal all the info you guys write and reword it
I'd like to get some more graphics up like the one I made to illustrate the windfury cooldown lockout for a fast OH with slow MH. Any thoughts on what concepts would be good to illustrate?
Amazing thread you guys have here with a lot of interesting theories.
I've been reading through many of these pages but I'd like to know your all opinions on whether the 4 piece t5 is worth getting (no access to chest just yet) by using the legs and shoulders. I myself find the shoulders to be a terrible piece and the legs to be mediocre with a lot of the item level used on stats.
Having Vashj finally drop a shaman token after much saving of dkp I have been able to obtain the helm and I just wondered how you guys would weigh the 5% flurry speed against the possible 1 to 2% crit and 30 or 40 ap from the other possible items I have available to me.
Amazing thread you guys have here with a lot of interesting theories.
I've been reading through many of these pages but I'd like to know your all opinions on whether the 4 piece t5 is worth getting (no access to chest just yet) by using the legs and shoulders. I myself find the shoulders to be a terrible piece and the legs to be mediocre with a lot of the item level used on stats.
Having Vashj finally drop a shaman token after much saving of dkp I have been able to obtain the helm and I just wondered how you guys would weigh the 5% flurry speed against the possible 1 to 2% crit and 30 or 40 ap from the other possible items I have available to me.
I am going for chest, but t5 shoulders sux - try to get t5 hands.
I did a bunch of my own speculation on the value of -armor and came to a few conclusions.
I came to the conclusion that 1 point of item budget will buy approximately 7 -armor.
Just FYI this is the same conclusion I came to. The trash neck from BT with -175 armor seems to be valued the same as if ithad been +25 rating points.
As far as the value of this stat, it varies from boss to boss which is an annoying answer but it is true. From a distance though it is easy to see how this is a good stat for us as it directly helps roughly 90% of our damage, which cannot be said for anything else except for AP/Str.
I got an idear while reading the discussion about the new WF vs GoA. You had a debate up there about FT vs WF on our Offhand and FT might be as good up to a point. But what about the FT-Totem will it scale with Spelldamge too? If thats the case it could be better to put down FT and GoA instead of WF.
No.
The only time you should even consider putting FT-totem down is if you have to drop Tranquil Air. Given proper raid buffs (specifically blessing of salv) that should never happen. WF totem is a 20% chance for an extra attack with more AP, flametounge will probably never be able to compete with that for damage due to WF's scaling nature.
I do know that it sucks right now. But i was talking about FT with the new mental quickness and failed to mention that. We will have up to 700 spell damage and if FT-Totem scales with it i think GoA + FT could be better than wf alone.
Hey, I've been a reader of this thread since it began and have been shifting my gear to match the conclusions drawn by data as it becomes available, usually with very positive results. I feel my dps has been steadily increasing over time as I acquire and change gear and so I was happy with this.
However I have some questions I'd like to ask now and I think after browsing they haven't been asked so I apologize if they have.
My first question is, when I first start attacking a mob, for the first 30-60 seconds my dps is very good, and very high, but after that point, even though I don't actually do anything different, it starts to sort of dwindle, sometimes down by as much as 200 on my meter(!) Is this the effect of my OH starting to steal WFs? (I have a 2.6 offhand) I do have the Invigorate set bonus, should I use the proc every now and then to attempt to reset the WFs back to my main hand? Or, is this decline simply natural for our dps in some way? I generally try to pop trinkets/minor cooldowns early so I can use them as many times as possible during a battle.
Secondly, is there anything really particularly good for ekeing out the most dps possible? I use a WF cooldown mod to cast SS at the best time, rotate ES and FS, use haste potions, and pop my trinkets with my shamanistic rage. Does anyone know if mana potting if I start to have mana troubles to continue shocking be more dps than the haste potion? I have the suspicion it would but, I don't really want to start chugging potions to test it out, and testing during raids is too irregular. So I'm curious if anyone has any personal experience with that.
On the same note is it better to drink a wisdom elixir for the mana regen over a fortitude elixir for the health? 1920 mana over a 10min fight or, roughly 4-6 more shocks. I use all other buffs I can think of (agility elixir or flask/20str food/sometimes scrolls).
Are there any other little tricks like that you can use to squeeze out the last drop of damage from your shaman? I've been playing a shaman for nearly two years now but an enhance one for only about 5 months - I'm sure there's little things I've missed picking up.
I'm really, really desperate to increase my damage, it's generally around 800-900 dps (on average, on most fights) at the moment with my set-up (On Armory here) and I need to increase that at least 100 I think to be a consistent raider for my guild. (Which is in BT/Hyjal)
Hey, I've been a reader of this thread since it began and have been shifting my gear to match the conclusions drawn by data as it becomes available, usually with very positive results. I feel my dps has been steadily increasing over time as I acquire and change gear and so I was happy with this.
However I have some questions I'd like to ask now and I think after browsing they haven't been asked so I apologize if they have.
My first question is, when I first start attacking a mob, for the first 30-60 seconds my dps is very good, and very high, but after that point, even though I don't actually do anything different, it starts to sort of dwindle, sometimes down by as much as 200 on my meter(!) Is this the effect of my OH starting to steal WFs? (I have a 2.6 offhand) I do have the Invigorate set bonus, should I use the proc every now and then to attempt to reset the WFs back to my main hand? Or, is this decline simply natural for our dps in some way? I generally try to pop trinkets/minor cooldowns early so I can use them as many times as possible during a battle.
Secondly, is there anything really particularly good for ekeing out the most dps possible? I use a WF cooldown mod to cast SS at the best time, rotate ES and FS, use haste potions, and pop my trinkets with my shamanistic rage. Does anyone know if mana potting if I start to have mana troubles to continue shocking be more dps than the haste potion? I have the suspicion it would but, I don't really want to start chugging potions to test it out, and testing during raids is too irregular. So I'm curious if anyone has any personal experience with that.
On the same note is it better to drink a wisdom elixir for the mana regen over a fortitude elixir for the health? 1920 mana over a 10min fight or, roughly 4-6 more shocks. I use all other buffs I can think of (agility elixir or flask/20str food/sometimes scrolls).
Are there any other little tricks like that you can use to squeeze out the last drop of damage from your shaman? I've been playing a shaman for nearly two years now but an enhance one for only about 5 months - I'm sure there's little things I've missed picking up.
I'm really, really desperate to increase my damage, it's generally around 800-900 dps (on average, on most fights) at the moment with my set-up (On Armory here) and I need to increase that at least 100 I think to be a consistent raider for my guild. (Which is in BT/Hyjal)
I don't use trinkets with rage anymore. The amount of buffed AP I have on raids more than fills up my mana bar without the added 30 mana per hit with brooch up. Instead I use them as early as possible to squeeze in another use at the end. You are also much better off using relentless assault than you are using any other pot combination. Consider picking up mental quickness and dropping healing focus, it helps a bit.
Otherwise, um.. You have a ton of hit rating. Read the formula and see if any of your banked gear is superior to your stuff with a ton of hit rating (kara ring/moroes cloak for example).
I hate to be overly picky about things, but is there any way (perhaps by editing of lua files) I could change the text on the timer bars? I currently use WFCooldown which is a small, unobtrusive yellow bar with just "wf" in the middle of it as opposed to "WF 3 sec cooldown" on yours. Also concerning the melee stats window, is it possible to just show weapon speed? I think that may have been asked before but I'm not sure.
I'd like to use the various facets of your addon but I'm kind of particular about my UI =/
Flametongue Totem does not scale with spell damage. If it did, yah it'd probably be pretty good. But it doesn't.
If I'm not mistaken, FT imbue and totem both scale with + damage, but with FT totem its the +damage of the person with the buff on their weapon.
So if you drop FT totem, sure you will get your +dmg bonuses but rogues/warriors/melee dps in your group i highly doubt will have any + spell damage gear on and would not recieve it. And I doubt you will have any melee locks/mages/spriests/ele shamans.
Small summary on my addons. WF3secAce2 - Shows WindFury and Stormstrike cooldowns.
USE /wf3sec
MeleeBuffsAce2 - Shows usefull DPS buff timers for Enhacement Shamans.
USE - /mb
MeleeFrameAce2 - Shows AP, Crit, weapon speed and damage in a movable window.
USE - /mf
WFtotemAce2 - Shows WF totem timers.
USE - /wftotem
Not the best place to be asking this, but I once disabled this mod, using the command, and now I can't turn it back on. I've tried deleting the mod and the related wf3sec.lua files in my WTF folder, then put the mod back in. It's enabled and everything but it wont apear or respond to the /wf3sec command. It's not giving lua errors either, might just my game being funny.
Hello,
I've been reading this thread for quite a while now, been a great help to me!
But i've been wondering something for some time, is the Dragonstrike really that good?I do not have acces to Syphon, but i can get a Dragonstrike, if i manage to raise Blacksmithing
Now, i am an orc, so i'm curious, is the Wicked Edge not better?Also how good is Dragonstrike in comparsion to Merciless Gladiator's Cleaver(as an orc) ?
Not the best place to be asking this, but I once disabled this mod, using the command, and now I can't turn it back on. I've tried deleting the mod and the related wf3sec.lua files in my WTF folder, then put the mod back in. It's enabled and everything but it wont apear or respond to the /wf3sec command. It's not giving lua errors either, might just my game being funny.
I looked in the lua file and saw where to edit the bar text. Is there a way to drag the bar or are there only x/y coords?
But i really miss a point, the partial resists. If i remember correctly, flametongue is a non-binary spell and that's why it can be partially resisted and that should lower the damage remarkable (especially on higher level differences), because the -resistances from curse of elements seems not to work for the second roll.
I'm sorry i can't find exactly numbers, but asking your warlocks spamming shadowbolts on lvl 72-73 mobs should confirm this, despite there is allways a curse up.
--
Ok, let's ignore the partial resistsfor the moment. What's about the offhand weapon speed?
With higher AP (=spelldamage), faster weapon will even scale better with flametongue.
But please remember, that you have to simulate your flurry and unleashed rage uptime with your weapon combination and use all this numbers for an accurate over all dps.
That's a decent amount of dps, but I think the main advantage of WF on the offhand is to increase your procrate for both hands to 36%. I can't wait for 2.3!!
Forgive me if I missed this aspect, as there was a lot to read and I could have possibly skipped over it, but in checking out a good majority of the posters specs I saw that all of them went 20 points into Restoration in order to get that 3% increase chance to hit.
Now, assuming you have plenty of +hit gear wouldn't it be more viable to go with a spec that was Elemental/Enhancement rather than Enhancement/Resto ?
A spec that included the 4 Elemental talents ( Convection / Concussion / Elemental Focus / Reverberation) could theoretically put out more DPS as long as you don't have to be spot healing in 10-25 man raids. In the end it allows you to shock whenever it is offcooldown and have those shocks come 1 second faster every hit. Add that up over a long period of time and thats a lot of extra shocks / extra damage. In a ten minute Vashj fight, assuming you are fighting the entire duration (which is unlikely) you would get roughly 15 extra shocks in. Assuming they hit for around 700 - 1400 dmg each (high end on a crit) thats 10,500 dmg you weren't doing right there on the low end.
I currently use a 16/45/0 spec and have no trouble going OOM and am able to put out a good deal of DPS while still having relatively 'bad' gear.
I could possibly be overlooking something very important (and I'm going to assume that I am and would like to be corrected/enlightened) but maybe I'm just too tired to put my finger on it at the moment. Let me know whether you agree or not. My enhancement shaman is still a baby level 70 but I am very interested in getting him as geared as my main.
As has been mentioned before, there are other less tangible benefits to putting points into the resto tree. If all you're concerned about is your personal DPS, than yes, by all means spec into Elemental. The resto tree offers a number of talent points that are beneficial to your raid. Increased totem area of effect, cheaper totems (so that you can continue to DPS and drop totems), improved Ankh (can't drop totems if you're dead!), and a chance at uninteruptable heals (spam heal yourself to stay alive when you pull aggro).
Is the Itemization - Gems list on the main page still the best option for each socket?
Based on stat weighting in lootzor, and the formulas on the main page, it would seem to suggest that unless you have a strong need for the socket bonus, or desire to satisfy a metagem set of requirements, you'd likely want 8 Str gem over any other option.
Is the Itemization - Gems list on the main page still the best option for each socket?
Based on stat weighting in lootzor, and the formulas on the main page, it would seem to suggest that unless you have a strong need for the socket bonus, or desire to satisfy a metagem set of requirements, you'd likely want 8 Str gem over any other option.
I think it comes down to personaly preference, but i have got the socket bonus on all my gear that has sockets available.
I guess i'm at the point where my damage isn't really an issue now, I provide the buffs now and put out competative damage (top 3-7) switching gems to all +str would not be of much benefit, as would dropping all hit items, I firmly believe that at this point with my level of gear hit is now close to being as important as other crit/ap/haste.
Miss rates on this weeks raids. (White damage) This is misses only (no dodges)
9% - Teron
7% & 8% - Gurtogg
9% - Azgalor
7% - Archimonde
10% - Najentus
Missing the WWS from the rest of clear for some reason.
Another thing which is bothering me, the dodge rate of bosses, I was under the impression it was a flat 5% chance to be dodged, but i'm getting roughtly 7-10%.
I've finally gotten myself into a raiding guild, and Kara is tomorrow. What I'm wondering is this: Can I hope not to embarrass myself in a 10 man situation with my gear? What gear should I have in order to even go into kara?
If you look at my armory, please let me know if there's anything failing in my gear. I've done the best that I can, given what I've had to work with.
Malan:
This is my bible. Please, keep up the good work. Thanks very much.
I've finally gotten myself into a raiding guild, and Kara is tomorrow. What I'm wondering is this: Can I hope not to embarrass myself in a 10 man situation with my gear? What gear should I have in order to even go into kara?
If you look at my armory, please let me know if there's anything failing in my gear. I've done the best that I can, given what I've had to work with.
Malan:
This is my bible. Please, keep up the good work. Thanks very much.
You really should update your profile so it links to your armory, having to open the page then search, then switch server area to find someone who wants our help is kind of annoying.
I'll edit this when i've had a look.
EDIT: Your gear isn't that bad, its worse than mine was when I first got to 70 though, Have you done all the quest that give rewards? I don't recalll having many of those items and I didn't have any lvl 60 enhancement gear.
The netherstorm/smv chain quests have some nice rewards and the desolation set comes from 5 mans, midnight legs from heroic slave pens.
If your going to kara though, and the other people are geared better or have the leather/mail gear already in there, you can probably skip all the above and go straight for kara epics.
I could possibly be overlooking something very important (and I'm going to assume that I am and would like to be corrected/enlightened) but maybe I'm just too tired to put my finger on it at the moment. Let me know whether you agree or not. My enhancement shaman is still a baby level 70 but I am very interested in getting him as geared as my main.
I ran with 19/42/0 for a while, but it's actually not as good as I had hoped. The high cost of shocks with relatively low damage returns ended up not being worth it. I can get more dps from going improved totems, mental quickness and then totem twisting WF/GoA than I do from an extra shock. Just to throw some numbers out, my WF hits against Vashj were around 700 and my crits were around 1400. So 1 WF crit does more damage than a shock, and I don't have to put 15 points into elemental to get it.
Long story short, resto talents + totem twisting gives a much higher personal and group dps than putting points into elemental does. I don't think that will change before the new talents come out. Decreasing the cost of shocks and giving us more spell damage will go a long way towards making the first 20 points of elemental much better.
08/13/07, 9:37 AM
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