So if old Haste rating was 2.22 AEP and Haste is now only 66% as valuable as it was previously then that makes the new Haste Rating AEP = 1.48. Slightly better than hit Rating.


Wicked Edge of the Planes = 23 Crit Rating + 48 AP = 94 AEP.

Minimum Uptime required for Dragonstrike to have an equal AEP value is

94 / 1.48 = 63.51 Average Haste Rating = 63.51 / 212 * 100 = 29.96 uptime%.


Therefore as long as your averaging a 30% uptime with the Haste proc from Dragonstrike you are at least equal to a Wicked Edge of the Planes.

As most players are reporting 40% uptime rates we can determine that it is still a clear winner over the axe even in its nerfed state.

A relief for me as I actually just switched over from axesmithing to macesmithing yesterday, and find out about this change this morning heh.

Hashassasin is a Combat Sword Rogue.
Darip is a Combat Fist Rogue.
Veneno is a Combat Sword Rogue.
Polymer is the Fury Warrior we run with.


We've been doing some testing with totems so far. Polymer typically has a HUGE deal of threat issues because of his DPS and has to hold back even with Salvation. We've tried some fights with Tranquil Air instead and the amount it's allowed him to open up has had him doing more total dmg than he's ever done before in any of our raids. Plus it's allowed me to open up significantly more as well doing more total raid dmg.

The rogues say they have some threat issues sometimes, however that is more fight dependent. For them it's not as big of a deal, however they've said they'd like to try out Poisons with GoA/TA totems for a while because initial raid runs have allowed everyone to do more total dmg.

If anyone has any numbers to back up or deny this it would be appreaciated. I do realize my specific guild's makeup may have different results than the statistical norm.

Thanks for the help.

I was one of the people claiming a higher uptime than that and was surprised to see such a low result from your testing. I headed down there tonight to get some testing in and though my results weren't as good as the 40ish percent I remembered getting previously they were pretty close.

I spent just under an hour whacking on one of them and wound up with a 38.09% uptime according to uptime meter. I do however have gear that probably influences it. I was wearing my regular raiding gear with the exception of DST swapped for bloodlust brooch so I had 2 mongoose enchants and 141 passive haste rating. Do you think the other haste stuff would have that much of an effect on it? Or are our two tests just on opposite ends of the probability spectrum?

Screenshot from the end:
http://grig.shackspace.com/dstest.jpg

After reading the first few and last 10-15 pages of thread (quite good "book" y'all wrote there ), I was wondering how my numbers are, compared to other (more) end-game shamans.

Currently my gear is T4 with some bits and pieces from SSC/TK. 4/5 T4, PVP bracers :S with +hit gem (soon those haste craftables from BT/MH), Void Reaver Greaves, some Kara belt+boots, Dragonspine Trophy and Bloodlust brooch trinkets and rings from Karazhan+Lurker. Well, it's on Armory, just might be PVP gear at the moment.

So, STR+AGI+ManaSpring totems, no elixirs or food, only selfbuffs and procs. Target was Servant of Razelikh ofc (poor guy). Was popping BBrooch and ShamRage on every CD together, also a Major Mana Pot on every CD. Did Bloodlust twice, whole fight lasted 12 minutes give or take 10s. Ended up with 1130 constant DPS. Only other thing I got is Windfury proc screenshot, click link.

So, what I want to know is what DPS numbers are other Shamans getting? Especialy those geared in T5/T6 with a slightly better offhand than mine (wrong speed )...

Here's a screenshot of a part of my WF procs, only useful data i got besides DPS meter (will try to get some decent addon for analysis for next run). It's quite obvious how many of my windfury procs are made by the damn slower offhand, since the numbers match up quite nice (1.3-2.1 offhand procs vs. 2.5-4+k mainhand procs).

What mob/boss are you hitting to get these numbers?

I dont recall getting anywhere near 3k without a mob being weakened by a proc/no armor.

He said in his post he was testing the procs on Servant of Razelikh.

Ah that makes sense then.

Actualy, it's Hit + 2xWF extra hits together. So for example, if WindfuryFu says 4.8k, it's actualy one crit for 1.5k that procced 2 extra WF crits for 1.7k each.

Maybe I'll make my own sim in PHP :-)
Can someone sum all procs ppm in 1 post please?

Was hitting Servant of Razelikh. Still havent done a 3k crit tho , maybe some day. My best single crits on "cloth" mobs raidbuffed with all the juice turned ON are around 2400 mark. Ofc, those are crits made by extra attack with windfury AP bonus. Best WF proc (hit + proc + proc) combined was 6221 on the humanoid guy before Attumen.

Some proper windfuryfu numbers:




And for a slightly more sensible bit, been doing some testing on Madness of the Betrayer. Uptime for me is at 40% Giving it an average of 120 armour penetration.

Using the numbers from my post on armour penetration this (for me) will on average be worth (120x0.364) = 43.68aep, add in the 20 hit and 84 ap and we get 156aep, even with lower armour targets this wont get much above 160aep.

The pic is with Fel rage on bloodboil.

Hi, I know the interactions between different slow weapons havent really been tested, but hopefully some1 has tried this combo.

Im currently using [The Decapitator] and [Merciless Gladiator's Pummeler] my guild is working on Al'ar so pretty soon I could either get [Netherbane] and use it as OH with the arena one as MH or go for [Talon of the Phoenix]

The stats from the fist weapon are better, but its speed is 2.7 and my OH would be 2.6, would this cause my OH to always have first dibs on WF and decrease my total DPS?

Thanks for any help with this

Glad MH and Netherbane OH
But with loot being so random, i'd say you go for what drops first

First of all, the amount of passive haste you have sickens me, and makes me jealous!

I don't know if it's the probability, or the passive haste, or what. I'm guessing that with the kind of gear you have, you also have a higher crit rate, so you'd spend more time in flurry (that's the major affect of your mongoose procs, i'd guess).

I've never used uptime meter, but I like the concept. I'll try that for my next test. Thanks a bunch for the data - I'm always a bit squeamish when I dont know the source. Now that I know it's you, I can at least know the numbers are coming from decent testing.

I got curious about this and decided to check with my friend Excel what happens when the off hand is not evenly divided by the Windfury cooldown.

I used the following speeds:
Main Hand: 2.7 speed ([Drakefist Hammer])
Off Hand: 2.6 speed ([Merciless Gladiator's Pummeler])

After 351 seconds (roughly 6 mins) all three would meet again (ie main hand + off hand would hit and Windfury cooldown be down again).

During that period I got 62 times where the main hand was first inline to get a hit after Windfury cooldown and only 55 for the off hand. Did anyone else count on this and are my numbers wrong? I didn't take into account Stormstrike nor haste and I assumed WF proced at the first hit.

Perhaps the numbers aren't wrong but the info is useless since Windfury only procs on 1/5 and it should somehow count during 5 next hits how many strikes each weapon has after a Windfury cooldown wears off?

@Tristan - I took Pater's sim the other day and ran about 10 tests of a 2.7/2.6 vs 2.6/2.6 combo, and each run of the sim had the 2.7 combo lower in DPS by a slight margin. (about 10-20 DPS for my gear level)

If you're modeling haste rating on a kara geared shaman then yes.

@Malan over what timeframe?

Pater's sim runs for 360,000 seconds as I recall.

Mainly @ Yo!

Your wall of text crit me so hard I had to spirit rez

A Problem -> Solution style would be much more effective in getting your point across.

For example: Haste rating on the front page is rated at X. With the coming changes, I feel it should be valued at X because <insert your voodoo/math/divination/drug-induced-fantasy here>

Our current AEP system is just fine with me. It gives me exactly what I needed, a down and dirty quick look at "What is best when hitting things in the face"

Nobody took it as the gospel, just as a good model to follow. It gives us something that we can all take as a general guide instead of using quantum physics to figure out the exact benefit of X agi versus X hit, which we all had to do independantly beforehand.

If that model is significantly off, tell us what is wrong, and what you would change to make it right. Like multiple AEP values for different stages in progression or something. I dont know, but it seemed like you put a lot of work in to tell us AEP wasn't 100% accurate which is something most of us assumed from the beginning anyway.

Sorry to dredge up those posts, and for the negativity. There is so much good in this thread that I link it to every shaman i see running around with a 1.4 speed offhand. Thanks again Malan for keeping this updated!

Morelis:

Did you use an alt to farm the mats for your tradeskills? Or did you buy it up off the AH? I'm currently enchanting and JCing *was mining*, but I've been itching to get the Dragonstrike and that leather shoulder pattern. Should I bother?