Ilmatar

Ditch the +hit. It is worth 1.4 AEP per point, and it is worth more in item budget than it is worth to us.

 

Strawberry

Ah ha,

ran the test in the blasted lands -

It went Reflex blades>2.6 speed green>Malchazeen>2.6 Lvl 11 grey hatchet...

The 2.6 speed Lvl11 grey hatchet was behind malchazeen by about 50DPS; alot less than you'd think, looking at the stats, especially when you factor in the Attack power and the little bit of hit Malchazeen should give you.

So Fast weapons = suck

You were absolutely right Malan - if this was a bet you'd have won

Thanks

 

Malan

Its a sad sad reality that we live in.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Igniter

I think a good addition to the OP would be ring enchant info regarding enhancement; I know for rogues and hunters +4 stats tops +2 weapon damage, after a good half hour of searching I'm still wondering the best one.

 

Malan

I'm not an enchanter so I've little personal insight into that, although my hunch would be +4 stats as well.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

◊ Rob

If +4 Stats is better for Rogues who get comparatively little benefit from the INT and STR and have a faster attack speed to take better advantage of the +2 Weapon Damage, then +4 Stats will be better for Shamans as well.

 

Igniter

That was my initial conclusion, but I wanted to avoid making that assumption right off the bat. I was also hoping to find a conversion of +2 damage into ap, but I'm still searching.

 

s315h1n

On the topic of enchants, how about cloak enchants? 12 Agility or 2% threat reduction? ;]

 

Nite_Moogle

It's weapon speed dependent, so it's not a straight conversion.

+weapon damage amount / weapon speed = equivalent DPS
2/2.6 = .75
equivalent DPS * 14 = equivalent AP
10.5 AP

With BoK and UR, 4 stats is a little over 9 AP so the difference is very minimal in terms of raw AP, but there's also benefit from the other stats (namely some crit) that makes +stats a better ring enchant.

Are you threat capped? Get threat reduction. If you aren't, get Agility.

 

Hadera

I think it depends on your aggro situation. If you're having to sit back on fights so that you won't pull aggro, go for the -2% threat. Malan said in a prior post concerning threat reducing trinkets that a trinket slot is essentially empty if you're having to 'throttle back'. I would think that the same principle applies here.

 

Toots Hepcat

Here's something to ponder: is 1% haste a better glove enchant that +15 STR?

2.2 Haste Rating = 2.2 STR

15.8 Haste Rating = 1% Haste

 

Nite_Moogle

Thottbot World of Warcraft: Enchant Gloves - Minor Haste
It is a very misleading tooltip: it adds enough rating to have been 1% at 60, so it adds 10 haste rating. It's not a percent scalar like Mongoose is.

 

Abrax

You guys sure do put a lot of thought into this stuff, way more than I ever will. But, I have to say, I've tried running with pure STR/Crit/AGI gear over a heavy hit rating suit and I have not been impressed with the results. Berg postulates that hit rating only effects White damage, and Windfury damage to lesser degree. But, you also can't crit if you miss. As I recall, against targets 3 levels higher than the player, the base chance to miss while Dual Wielding is roughly 24.5%. And correct me if I'm wrong there, it's been a while since I had this all explained to me. given 5% chance to miss, that could potentially reduce damage dealt that was derived from UR and Flurry procs, in addition to missed Windfury procs and crits. Granted, you would have more chance to crit, and do more damage per hit, but unless you can get more crit % increase than you lose in hit % increase, I dont think it would be worth the change.

 

Sebudai

Well, if you'd like months of actual results instead of theorycraft you're welcome to review my guilds WWS parses. I have possibly the lowest total hit rating of any of the endgame shaman. Also, I don't think anyone is saying to ignore hit rating. You definitely want some. The higher your other stats get, the more important hit rating becomes by comparison.

Strength is the most efficient stat for us, but that doesn't mean it's the only stat we want to focus on. The stat weightings do not tell us to focus entirely on strength. I like to think of it in pie-chart terms. The stat weightings tell us that 40% of our pie should consist of strength, 35% crit rating/agility, and 25% hit rating/haste rating, if that makes sense.

 

◊ Rob

Assuming you have 9% hit from talents, adding hit rating on your gear will never, ever, EVER* cause you to gain a crit you would not have previously had. I stopped reading after this point, because the rest of your analysis was based on this idea and it's wrong.




* Assuming you are not crit-capped, which nobody is, because Glancing Blows are now only 25% of the hit table, you would have to have something like 60% critical strike chance.

 

Paradox

I just noticed the Dragonstrike I was crafting is 2.7 speed, and the Merciless Gladiators Pummeler I have in Offhand is 2.6 speed, how will this difference affect my damage? I currently have Decapitator in main-hand, which is 2.6 speed also. Isn't it very bad to have an offhand faster than the main hand?

 

Hadera

It is, but 2.6 speed is still considered under the blanket term 'slow'. A 2.7 speed MH and a 2.6 speed OH is a perfectly fine combination; the speed difference is pretty marginal

 

Abrax

Care to qualify that? Because I fail to see how a 9% increase in hit chance wipes out a 24.5% chance to miss. Seriously, if you know why, then let me know.

 

Malevolencia

It's cos of how the attack table works.. Attack table - WoWWiki, the Warcraft wiki Basically, if your char sheet says 30% crit, you will crit for 30% of your attacks, not 30% of your hits. if you missed 70% of the time somehow, then you would always get a crit and never see a single non crit hit . The only time you need more hit to improve crit is when you have say 75% miss and 30% crit rat.. you will then crit on 25% of attacks, and miss all the rest. If you added 5% more hit in this case, you would rise to 30% crit rate. (if you added 10% hit, you'd rise to 30% crits, 5% hits, 65% misses).. With a roughly 25% base miss rate while DWing, a 6% dodge rate by bosses and a 25% glancing blow rate on bosses (you can't crit on a glancing either) you have 100 - (25+6+25) = 44% hit rate. Thus without talents you need over 44% crit before you start to need hit to improve your number of crits. With talents, you have +9% more hit already, so you need 53% crit before you require hit to get more crits.

 

Malan

When are people going to stop claiming this.

No. That's not how the hit table works. Go to WoWwiki and search for Attack Table. Come back when you've educated yourself on it.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

ewichern

Another way you can get some quick feedback without a flight to the blasted lands is to use one of the simulators listed in the first post of the thread. According to the sim, as a MH the Malchazeen produced ~20dps less than the Reflex Blades using my stats (for convenience). It wasn't *quite* as bad in the OH, but still a 18-19dps decrease from Boggspine.

It's unfortunate. Would be nice to be able to choose from a wider variety of weapons.

 

Sebudai

Is the current 202.5 AEP the DST is listed at in the OP taking into account the coming nerf to haste rating? If not, what will the new DST come out to? 148ish? I searched the thread but I couldn't find an answer. Hopefully I'm not a stupid.

 

rava

Pretty sure that is the old value. Some quick math 325x2.2x15/60+40=old value (unless I'm doing something wrong? I think I am because my total is coming out at 218.75) where new would = 160.25

 

Sebudai

That's what my total came out to aswell, so I figured I must be calculating it wrong. I ended up just reducing the haste portion of the total AEP by 33% to account for the nerf, that's where my total comes from.

 

Morelis

I've got good news and bad news.

The good news is the old value for DST was a bit on the low side, with 40% uptime(I'd used 1.5 ppm since we didn't have uptime meter) and valuing haste at 2.2(I'd used 2.0 originally) the current version scores a whopping 300 AEP.

The bad news; I just finished testing DST uptime on the PTR(then on live for comparison) and according to my 30min test the proc rate has been lowered substantially. I measured 22.79% uptime over the 30mins. That seemed pretty startling so I repeated the test on the live realms and with identical gear and testing as close to the same as I can manage it scored 41.88%. I 'm sure the sample is small enough for there to be some pretty significant variation, but I'd be surprised if that much of a difference came down to chance.

For the testing I swapped out all my passive haste and haste-proc gear so the haste nerf itself should have a fairly minimal impact in the results. Here's the screenshots:

PTR - http://grig.shackspace.com/dst-ptr.jpg
Live - http://grig.shackspace.com/dst-live.jpg

If my results are an accurate assessment of the proc rate then the new score using 1.48 for haste(which I think is a bit high) would be about 150 AEP. If the lower proc rate had been noted elsewhere I apologize in advance for not seeing it.

ps. The new windfury graphic is terrible.