Ilmatar

Judging by AEP, the stat bonus for the meta possibilities are about equal:
[Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond] - 24aep
[Potent Unstable Diamond] - 24aep
[Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] - 24 aep w/ kings
[Swift Skyfire Diamond] - 24 aep

The [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] +3% crit damage bonus works for all crits, spell and melee. So, (pure theoretical) this should result in an increase in your DPS of + ( ( 0.03 * melee_crit% * dps_from_melee ) + ( 0.03 * spell_crit% * dps_from_spells ) )

The advantages of the other meta gems are either PvP related, or gains which can be had in other slots (run speed). This is the only equipment slot where we can add +3% crit damage.

 

Unaz

I don't have that consistantly, but with trinkets and raid buffs, I hit 500+ SR ticks. Which is around that number. And we're just on vashj/solarian as far as progression.

 

Nisall

The problem lies in the fact that both hands proc the same event. The statement that implies that when dual wielding your proc rate is 36% is saying that there is a 36% chance one of your weapons will proc a windfury.

Just to simplify things;
WF1 = windfury (rank 5) proc from your mainhand
WF2 = windfury (rank 4) proc from your offhand
WF3 = windfury proc from either (doesn't differentiate between MH and OH procs)

various scenarios
-Only equipping a MH you would have a 20% chance to proc WF1
-Only equipping an OH you would have 20% chance to proc WF2
-Dualwielding, pre-WF rank change, your MH has a 20% chance to proc WF1 and your OH has a 20% to proc WF2
-Dualwielding, post-WF rank change, you have a 36% (0.8*0.8) chance to proc WF3

EDIT: Blizzard hasn't changed the proc rate for single vs dualwielding. The confusion just happens when people use the same word to mean different things. Sometimes "WF proc" is used for a specific hand which procs and sometimes "WF proc" refers to any proc that happens.

 

Yo!

Hope this helps



EDIT: This explains it (each hit has 2 chances to proc WF when dual-wielding)... but why each hit has 2 chances to proc remains unknown (is it intended by Blizz or it is a bug).

 

◊ Malan

Yo - much better, now we can see the sharper curve on the left side of the graph, illustrating the rising % of OH procs.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

Ilmater

I understand wanting to give good leather gear to rogues because it enhances them more than us, but the fact remains that leather gear is the best gear for enhancement shaman. So, if you're coming along to buff all the melee dps, then you should be allowed to roll on leather gear and increase your dps as well as the rogue's.

 

• Shabadu

I only see leather as the best in 4 slots at T6. Helm, bracers, belt and chest. The difference elsewhere is so incredibly marginal as to have intellect and AR tip the favor towards mail.

Sure in Karazhan you have Bladed Shoulderpads and Cowl of Defiance and Edgewalker, and Skulkers greaves being better than many T5 items. But when you consider a 25 man setting, a Rogue brings the best single target dps, scaling better than any other dps class bar none. You are doing your raid a disservice by not allocating items to where they do the most good. You are brought to raids precisely to buff your rogues and warriors, the dps you do in order to buff is considered bonus.

 

TradewindKlaatubarada

Mignight Chestguard, Insidious Bands, Cursed Vision of Sargeras and Belt of One-Hundred Deaths.

 

Nisall

First of all, a very nice graph showing the relation of MH and OH speeds

The 'why' is normal statistics.

Take a coin and flip it. Each flip has a 50% chance to be heads or tails.

Lets take 2 flips. The 4 different combinations are
heads - heads
heads - tails
tails - heads
tails - tails

[math; h=heads, t=tails]
1. The chance that both flips are heads is 25% [math; 0.5h*0.5h= 0.25h] (you can compare this to the 4% chance to get a dual proc pre rank fix)
2. The chance that at least one flip is heads is 75% [math; 0.5h*0.5t + 0.5t*0.5h + 0.5h*0.5h = 0.75 with at least 1 h] (you can compare this to the 36% chance to any WF proc)
3. The chance for one coin to get heads is 50% (you can compare this to the 20% chance to proc WF from a single weapon)

 

Nemaa

So we can tell that the best gear for enhancement shamans is listed on THIS link except for gloves what is [Fists of Mukoa] (still best after the haste nerf) and waist what is [Belt of One-Hundred Deaths]. Am I right about this?

 

Xoya

Yes, I realized you had a resto piece on after the fact, but I still don't get how you're getting 34xx with raid buffs (which I now realize you mean all average AP including unleashed rage, which you shouldn't be inputting into the sim; sim calculates unleashed rage itself). If you remove the extra AP from ashtongue talisman & unleashed rage, that's about 600 less AP, so let's say 2800 with raid buffs. That's a little more believable, since I think I've calculated that I get about 1100 AP from raid buffs, not including unleashed rage.

The confusion was in the term "raid buffed". I thought it was generally accepted that the term "raid buffed" meant everything but proc effects, so for us, things like unleashed rage, ashtongue talisman, average added crit and ap from mongoose/other trinkets, etc.

 

Unaz

Lootzor is missing a few important pieces of gear (or was the last time I looked), but generally it'll point you in the right direction.

I've been using Thottbot World of Warcraft: Customize Item Score Multipliers and doing searches on each slot lately though. Unfortunately it assigns values to gem slots directly instead of assigning points based on actual gems/bonuses though.

 

Nemaa

It's actually missing the -armor and the haste items. After 2.2 haste items will be way worse (except for the gloves) so it does not really matter. There are not too much armor penetration items for us and we don't really know it's value, thus we can ignore them as well. (By the way I use 1 armor penetration = 0.27 AEP value in pawn)

 

Beroll

I guess it's up to you and the values you like/use. In my list both items do not even make it into the top3.

 

vorda

Thats because your list doesnt give any value to +skill and +haste. The +skill makes the belt by far the best in the game currently. (and thats with most formulas possibly even underestimating +skill if I'm not misinformed)

 

Ujai

Maybe I'm dumb or blind, but what's the math behind crit getting worse the more you have? I don't remember reading that in this thread (although this might be due to reading it some time ago).

Also, I would like to lose some words about specc. I recently read a post in the official forum (please don't laugh at me for reading it) who claimed to have the "agreed on best talent build", but it had Imp. Ghostwolf for example. I don't see how such a build could be the best there is.

 

Morelis

Crit gives the expected damage increase plus damage through increased flurry/UR uptime. The more you gain though the closer those uptimes get to 100% and the smaller the return on each additional % is.

 

Ryley

Imp. Ghostwolf is useful for running between Air Elementals in SMV, but that's about it, though for a raid DPS spec I don't see where else you would put those points, mental quickness maybe?

 

Diogo

Well, the complete math behind it would depend on whose model you are using. You can check all the excellent sims and calculators here to see for yourself. As far as the intuition goes, its because a large part of our dps is determined by a multiplicative function that includes all relevant stats.

Let me give you a couple of examples:

say you do 100dps, but you have 0 crit. Then you add about 5% crit. That is a 5% dps increase (105/100). Now consider that you have accumulated gear to the point where you have 30% crit, all else constant: all of the sudden, an additional 5% crit will not get you a 5% dps increase (135/130=~3.8%)

Alternatively, think of it this way: item stats cost the same, but give uneven benefits depending on how much you have of them. if you have 100 crit rating and 0 attack power, you'd be better off switching some crit out for ap. So its not that crit gets "worse," just that, depending on your stat allocation, you see different benefits from each stat. The goal, then, is to get to that point where you get the most out of a given stat budget.

 

smokey

I'd like to know what is the ultimate combo of weapons for DW, i just got the Syphon (/w axe arena S2) from supremus, and i guess the best options are :

- 2xsyphons
- rising tide + syphon
- dragonstrike + syphon

I know all those options are very viable, but i'm looking for the very best optimisation, and i can afford respec forge. So if someone know about it, tell me plz.

sorry for my newbish question and my english p

edit : I did some test with the servant in the blasted, it apears that the syphon gives best DPS when its MH equiped (/w axe arena S2 in OH) :

500k sample, auto attack, no SS :

syphon + axe S2 = 875 DPS
axe S2 + syphon = 887 DPS

 

• Sebudai

I'm confused. Are you wearing tier 12?

 

Bragor

Was thinking the same thing here.

Theres no way having 3500 AP while maintaining 45% constant crit with the current itemzation.

I remember reading once in my old fury warrior days that Crit go into diminishing returns once you go over 33% crit unbuffed. However, From what I can fathom it's pretty darn easy reaching this once you reach BT/MH.

Btw, Good job on the number crunching peeps.. it makes my days in college run much smoother crunching numbers

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