I've been reading my combat logs to note the changes with sword spec. It is true that they are no longer yellow damage. However, what I can't figure out because of the cluttered nature of the combat log is if swords:

Are resetting the main hand swing timer. Blizzard said it doesn't, but they say a lot of things and I would like an empirical method of testing this.

Off hand sword attacks still proc main hand swings. Again, the combat log makes for a lousy way of testing this. Even if I put a fist or mace in my main hand to test it and a crappy grey weapon in my off hand to see if there's a difference, it's still hard to tell if whether or not it's the main hand or off hand that's getting the extra attack. It was much easier to see when it was in yellow.

Any feedback on whether or not your main hand is being reset and if your off hand procs your main hand would help, or feedback on how to get the data to make an empirical conclusion about the spec. Thanks!

How to read your combat log regarding sword spec procs:

xx:xx:xx You hit some Douchebag for 123. <-- not the attack that procced sword spec
xx:xx:xx You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization. <-- proc message
xx:xx:xx You hit Some Douchebag for 345. <-- the attack that procced sword spec
xx:xx:xx You hit Some Douchebag for 545. <-- the sword spec swing
xx:xx:xx You hit Some Doucehbag for 115. <-- next normal swing

Hope that helps. I'd test it myself if I had swords.

Thanks! Very helpful

I think I may have hit a bump in the road. Looks like if this analysis is correct, the swing timer is being reset or only the sword procs twice regardless of whether or not it's your main hand. I need more data to conclude that swords are completely broken or if I'm reading the combat log incorrectly. Main hand speed is 2.6, off hand is 1.6.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s0n/swords.jpg

Errrr, I think actually having time stamps in your combat log would help, when I was recording sword spec procs, the procs happened in the exact same second of "your gain 1 sword spec, blah blah blah"

Or just do /combatlog and take a look at the log file.

Either Sword Spec can proc off itself, it triggers late or it shortens your swing timer. All yesterday I've been running into wierd stuff I've never seen with it before. This is with a two hander however.

When I was raiding yesterday I saw a lot of back to back extra attacks, I assumed this was windfury. Later, I went to AV to farm up a little honor for the new rewards and on a few occasions I'd get two SS procs seemingly back to back. It'd go white->you gain extra attack through sword specialisation->white (presuming sword spec swing)->you gain extra attack through sword specialisation->white.

I'll /combatlog tonight if I get the chance because I know you guys are all skeptics, I think swords are broken again or something.

Here's a combat log of swords. For this I was trying a weird spec, 16/45, 5 points in fists, 5 points in swords. Latros is in the off hand, Merciless Gladiator Right Ripper is the main hand weapon.

6/21 02:16:52.356 You hit Coilfang Slavehandler for 163.
6/21 02:16:52.572 You crit Coilfang Slavehandler for 970.
6/21 02:16:53.476 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/21 02:16:53.476 You hit Coilfang Slavehandler for 179.
6/21 02:16:53.476 You hit Coilfang Slavehandler for 420.
6/21 02:16:53.934 You have slain Coilfang Slavehandler!

The last two attacks, the one for 179 I'm assuming proc'd the main hand to hit for 420 at the exact same time on the time stamp. There was a main hand attack .9 seconds before the next main hand attack so at least we can confirm that the main hand is still the weapon that swings when swords are proc'd. Still need to do more testing to see if whether or not the timer's being reset.

From my current testing, it looks like the 2.1.2 SS works like pre-2.1.0 but without resetting the swing timer on OH/special procs.

When wielding a MH sword only, i got sequences of double Fiery, double Poison, or chained SS procs (or a combination of the above). I simply autoattacked mobs for a few 1000 swings, and with a 2.6-speed MH, interference by the previous and following swings is not a factor. Any sequence like

0.00: You hit X for Y.
2.60: You gain 1 extra attack from your Sword Specialization.
2.60: You hit X for Y.
2.60: Your Wound Poison hits X for Y.
2.60: You hit X for Y.
2.60: Your Wound Poison hits X for Y.
5.20: You hit X for Y.

is an immediata proof that a MH triggered extra attack can proc Poisons (or whatever else double procced).


For OH triggered extra attacks, I used a very slow MH non-sword (2.9 speed mace) with Wound Poison, and a fast OH sword (1.4 speed) w/o anything, plus Shiv and SnD. You never get entirely clean results, since the best you can hope for is a SS proc right between 2 MH autoattacks (with only 1.45 seconds before/after, instead of 2.6 seconds in the case above), and you need to make sure you can distinguish between MH and OH hits (non-overlapping damage ranges). At any rate, i got a couple of cases where Poison was very likely the result of the OH triggered extra attack (where the proc happened more than 1 second before/after a MH autoattack), and in all cases autoattack rate was unaffected (roughly around the 2.2 seconds you'd expect with SnD up).

I haven't tested yellow attack triggered extra attacks yet (and it's harder now, since you cannot turn away from the mob until only yellow attacks hit - or you only trigger, but don't get the (white) extra attack), but I'd guess the current SS is what the pre-2.1.0 should always have been: extra white MH attacks, proccing whatever a MH white attack could trigger.

Theoretically, the difference between 2.1.0 and 2.1.2 SS is very small, and might turn in favor of the latter when approaching the hit-cap (glancing blows in exchange for all MH procs, including chain procs).

It does actually seem like it's finally "working as intended".

OH hits seem to proc MH swings that are true extra swings, and not resetting the swing timer:

[MH]
6/20 21:03:38.940 You crit The Curator for 3126.
[OH]
6/20 21:03:39.440 You hit The Curator for 638. (glancing)

[OH: 0.96 since last]
6/20 21:03:40.400 You hit The Curator for 775.

[MH: 1.82 since last]
6/20 21:03:40.760 You crit The Curator for 3187.

[OH: 0.94 since last]
6/20 21:03:41.339 You crit The Curator for 1529.

[OH: 1.04 since last; procs sword spec]
6/20 21:03:42.379 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 21:03:42.379 You hit The Curator for 724.

[MH: 1.681 since last; sword spec hit]
6/20 21:03:42.441 You hit The Curator for 1836.

[MH: 1.98 since last; 0.30 since sword spec hit]
6/20 21:03:42.742 You hit The Curator for 1639.

[OH: 1.11 since last]
6/20 21:03:43.489 You hit The Curator for 732.


Specials likewise seem to generate true extra attacks and not reset the swing timer:

[MH]
6/20 20:15:07.994 You hit Phantom Guest for 448.

[Sinister Strike proccing sword spec]
6/20 20:15:08.419 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 20:15:08.486 Your Sinister Strike hits Phantom Guest for 504. (50 blocked)

[MH: 0.49 since last (sword spec proc)]
6/20 20:15:08.486 You crit Phantom Guest for 775.

[OH]
6/20 20:15:08.784 You crit Phantom Guest for 390.

[MH: 1.24 since last; 0.75 since sword spec]
6/20 20:15:09.235 You crit Phantom Guest for 837.

[OH: 0.53 since last]
6/20 20:15:09.309 You crit Phantom Guest for 353.

Chain procs are hard to verify as a dual-wielder - i'm not done going through my log yet, but so far i've seen some fairly insane proc strings (6 in 6s, for instance), but they seem explainable as independent events (several white/specials between each proc).

edit - possible chain procs:

6/20 21:12:31.714 Your Sinister Strike hits Chaotic Sentience for 500.
6/20 21:12:32.473 You attack. Chaotic Sentience dodges.
6/20 21:12:33.043 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 21:12:33.292 Your Sinister Strike crits Chaotic Sentience for 1189.
6/20 21:12:34.182 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 21:12:34.182 You crit Chaotic Sentience for 335.
6/20 21:12:34.245 You attack. Chaotic Sentience dodges.

6/20 21:13:33.359 You crit Mana Feeder for 370.
6/20 21:13:34.354 You hit Mana Feeder for 170.
6/20 21:13:34.641 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 21:13:34.651 You crit Mana Feeder for 782.
6/20 21:13:34.940 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 21:13:34.940 You hit Mana Feeder for 404.
6/20 21:13:34.940 You crit Mana Feeder for 785.
6/20 21:13:34.940 You have slain Mana Feeder!

6/20 21:39:43.772 You crit Shade of Aran for 574.
6/20 21:39:43.957 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 21:39:43.957 You hit Shade of Aran for 623.
6/20 21:39:44.318 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 21:39:44.318 You crit Shade of Aran for 1399.
6/20 21:39:44.332 You hit Shade of Aran for 680.

6/20 22:35:26.894 You hit Prince Malchezaar for 146. (glancing)
6/20 22:35:26.919 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 22:35:26.919 You crit Prince Malchezaar for 901.
6/20 22:35:27.590 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/20 22:35:27.590 You hit Prince Malchezaar for 203.
6/20 22:35:27.887 You hit Prince Malchezaar for 470.

Tuesday in SSC there was one instance where I had 3 extra attacks within one second with a fist MH sword OH combo. I know it's not hard evidence but I'm pretty convinced offhand procced sword specs can still chain-proc, and ABSOLUTELY sure that they can proc windfury (did specific testing for that one).

Er...yes you're right, I should have read your post more thoroughly. From looking it over the first time I was under the impression that you were still unsure about offhand-triggered attacks, but looking at it again it seems pretty clear

Time to bust out the hand of justice, MH the blinkstrike, and Offhand the thrash blade (or a 2nd blinkstrike) ... and see just how many bonus attack chains we can get.

Back preTBC (hell, pre MC), I opened on a scarlet spellbinder, hit it with maybe one autoattack, hit sinister strike, and the mob fell over from chained extra attacks.