Tritone

The utility of the 2-piece tier 5 (which I have no intention of dropping till the end of TBC progression) goes beyond a simple potentially 200mp/5 return. It transforms the way priest healing should be approached--improving it.

The ability to anticipate damage with a rank 1 gheal and not worry too much about a potential waste is excellent for a lot of reasons. Targets will more frequently have inspiration, poor cancels on damage spikes are minimized, resulting not only in less tank deaths, but also generally better mana conservation considering the poor efficiency of PW:S (the priest class' most and sometimes only viable form of spike damage mitigation).

On top of the increased efficiency of a healing style that pivots more heavily on anticipation without cancellation, the 2-piece greatly increases the functionality of Clearcasting and Inner Focus. When Clearcasting procs or you use inner focus, not only do you get an almost gauranteed 100 back, you also are maintaining your full spirit regen. When used sequentially, even spamming you can take advantage of an additional 7.5 seconds of full regen, plus the bonus 200 from the overheals.

I prefer to take advantage of this time by timing timing my heals to maximize my regen while still being able to deliver 8000+ heals on my target. The 7.5 seconds is an absolute minimum and you can really suck suck the life out of that time by using a +spirit on use trinket. When I get a clearcasting if its up I'll almost always use my Lurker trinket and follow it with an inner focus (assuming its up).

Other healing classes really have nothing like this combination (they interrupt their spirit regen with almost every action), and the 2-piece avatar bonus makes this bonus utility even more ridiculous.

Stuff like this actually make priests fun to heal with, you can do much better and be much more useful by thinking actively and taking advantage of every aspect of the class rather than simply spamming.

All this being said a rank 1 gheal crit with 2-piece avatar isn't as efficient as a ProM that bounces 3 times, nor even a PoH or CoH that effectively heals 4 targets. It's just something else to add to our arsenal.

 

Fondren

The key to efficient use of the T5 2/5 bonus is well targeted overhealing.

Before T5, the most efficient healer is the one who heals the target for exactly the amount of damage done. Now, the most efficient healer is the one who heals for exactly one point more.

It only takes one point of OH to proc the bonus. As this set becomes more common, I anticipate more healers increasing the number of GH ranks on their hotkeys.

It's going to change the way we all heal, and we should be preparing for it. Personally, I have expanded the number of GH ranks hotkeyed from three to five in order to improve my precision and prepare for this set.

The auction house is my favorite form of PvP.

 

CheshireCat

Good point, Fondren. I'm also considering a few changes to gearing and spec. I've been gemming Royal Nightseyes in almost every possible slot, but it occurs to me that this bonus means that being able to get that one point of overheal with a lower rank of GHeal is worth a lot of MP5. I'm going to consider moving to +18 healing gems in red slots, at least.

Also, the combination of more +heal on my gear and better returns on bigger GHeals make the possible returns on the Empowered Healing talent that much higher. I'm one of our designated iDS priests, but I might shift things around to see if I can squeeze another point or two for that talent.

 

embrauer

Exactly. (hi pyla). Anyway, on our epic 15minute Lurker kill last night I got 43 procs which resulted in 25mp5. This number will vary based on healing duty, and whether or not you're in a position to really abuse the bonus - but from all indications it really has boosted my longevity. Even on trash where I am throwing around heals recklessly and fairly mindlessly, I found that I was ending a particular trash fight with a lot more mana than I'm used to, simply because lax healing on trash means I overheal more, meaning more mana returned. I'm going to assign myself to a pure MT healing position tonight and see how it works out there.

 

Sunchips

What mods are you guys using to track the amount of procs? Can recount do this?

 

embrauer

Probably, the proc itself is called Efficiency. We parse our fights with WWS so I just get the relevant proc counts from there.

 

Fondren

Sorry. Stupid question. What is WWS and where do I get it?

The auction house is my favorite form of PvP.

 

• sordee

I'm guessing the new defacto priest weapon enchant will be +81 healing, as "missing" one overheal is on par with cost of not having the 1PPM SpellSurge.

 

embrauer

Relevant thread here. Basically a post-raid statistics tool.

 

• constantius

Slightly aside, but any priest who *isn't* using a 2nd weapon with Spellsurge and using the amazing CasterWeaponSwap addon is silly, imo. It's the absolute best of both worlds: +81 healing for 80% of the time, and then 9 Mp5 from a guaranteed Spellsurge proc every single minute. I put Spellsurge on my exalted Sha'tar mace (if you're not exalted by now, what have you been doing?) and +81 healing on the staff from Mag's. Every 50 seconds, like clockwork, I lose 81 healing for 2-10 seconds while Spellsurge goes off, then back the weapon switches.

 

Sunchips

Ya....There's absolutely no reason to have spellsurge on your main healing weapon. It was never a "defacto priest weapon enchant".

 

Lavery

I don't typically heal, so I hadn't looked at this set bonus much before, but it looks pretty interesting.

A few seconds with a calculator shows that this effectively reduces the cost of Greater Heal rank 1 by over 27% (370 to 270); with 3 points in Improved Healing, you're reducing the cost by just short of 32% (314.5 to 214.5).

In my terrible +1k healing set, with zero talents in holy, this means boosting the same spell's HPM by 37% (4.36 to 5.97); better gear and appropriate speccs would increase these numbers further. While you'd more likely be using higher ranks, in situations where you're merely topping people off these are significant increases. I wouldn't be too surprised if people began building their priests around this mechanic, similar to how it was assumed that nearly everyone took the 3 piece Transcendence in Classic WoW.

 

• sordee

Is it worth even switching anymore after getting 2-piece bonus?

 

galzohar

What do they have to do with eachother? This thing is mana and the other is mana, both things are even more mana! It's *that* simple ;p
At least I doubt your few heals that would've topped someone off with an extra 81 healing during the short duration in which you had the spellsurge weapon equipped will really matter compared to the mana from spellsurge.

 

• constantius

I don't have 2 T5 yet, but basically, I can *always* spend mana. Always. Give me more mana. *MORE*.

We typically run *very* healer light -- Hydross with 5, Morogrim with 6. This means it's very frantic and hectic, and I run at least 70% in the 5SR. The more mana I have, the more effective I can be. And over a 10 minute fight, having that CWS setup means me (AND my party) gain 1000 mana. That's half a pot. Why *wouldn't* I have this setup?

Also, note that the power of the following should not be underestimated:
Resto Shaman (with Spellsurge & +81 on two weapons)
Shadow Priest
Holy Paladin / Holy Priest (ditto)
Holy Paladin / Holy Priest (ditto)
Holy Paladin / Holy Priest (ditto)

Mana Tide; Shadow Priest-y goodness; 4 Spellsurges per minute. AKA spam-bot group.

 

Sunchips

I guess that would depend on the rest of your gear. When I got my 2 piece, I pretty much wasn't using mana pots at all. I don't agree with that sort of play, so I started dropping mp5 in gobs for more +heal and stam.

 

Sunchips

Would you even need to use mana pots in a group like this? I just don't see the point of it.

 

Lavery

Honestly, if I were healing in the group constantius described (or DPSing as the Shadow Priest, for that matter), I'm really not sure I'd know what to do with that kind of mana. Over the 10 minutes, you gain 4000 mana from the enchants alone. That seems really excessive.

Edit: Assuming my math hasn't escaped me, over the same time period you'd get 30,000 mana from the Shadow Priest (assuming 1k dps), Mana Spring would return 3600 mana, and...I have no idea how to handle the math for Mana Tide.

 

• constantius

Again, if you think you wouldn't use that mana, you obviously run with more healers than we do. Try killing Hydross with 5 healers in the raid, and then it'll be quite obvious what you'd do with all that mana. Use it.

From what I've seen in balancing raids in TBC, each healer reduces the load exponentially, to the point that when you hit 8 or 9 healers, you stop having to pot. And your job becomes a lot more boring. We just happen to have a lot of dps, and few healers, so we've learned to adapt to a situation where we *always* need mana.

Figure a 10 minute fight (i.e. Hydross, right up to enrage, just for kicks).

10 * 60 / 50 = 12 (best case) Spellsurge procs, round to 11
11 procs * 4 people = 4400 mana per person

Shadow priest, assume 900 dps consistent, with VT never dropping off, so 27000 mana restored to the group.

Add Mana Tide, for another 48% of your mana (2 drops) over the course of the fight.

Mana Spring, fully setup, is roughly 3600 more mana.

Realistically, you're never going to see that level of shadow priest return. Even with an innervate, a picture-perfect VT-up-all-the-time rotation will never happen. So round it down to 20k mana. I can use all that mana. If you can't, think about ways you could.

Now, remove the SP from the picture, and give him/her to the dps. Suddenly, 4400 mana returned is actually the *highest* of your returns, and is a significant gain to your regeneration (works out to 37 Mp5).

 

Aganan

It is very encouraging that the reviews on the two piece T5 bonus are positive -- our guild isn't quite to that stage of progression yet, but I dearly want to replace my gloves and pants with their T5 equivalents. I have found that my "niche" as a healer lies in the 2-3k range and that I spend most of my time alternating between max rank flash heal and first rank greater heal, so the set bonus would seem to complement my style really nicely. In discussions with our Holy paladins, it doesn't seem like they have anything nearly as good as downranked greater heal one, and this set bonus will make that goodness even better.

(Of course, the 1.75 second Holy Light from the four piece T5 bonus for holy paladins seems really sweet too...)

 

• constantius

Except FoL:7, with BoL up, and full holy spec talents, with +2k healing.

475 point average heal.
+12% (Healing Light)
+healing S&E
+BoL (185 to FoL)

(475+185+2000*1.5/3.5)*1.12 = 1700 avg heal [my math may be off on the BoL - it's a difference of 22 healing, tho, so no big deal]

1.5 seconds, 1700. And a chance of approx. 35% to crit (in T5+ gear). For 180 mana.

I'd take that over GH:1 any day, even with the set bonus. GH:1 is 314 mana for 2200 healing, taking 2.5 seconds.

The only difference is that our spams of GH:1 can proc Inspiration and Clearcasting; paladins just top up the tank, and have chance to be 60% free.

 

Sunchips

I'm not sure what kind of gear or spec you're going off of, but my GH:1 heals for 2900-3100. I usually never go below rank 2 which is 3400, but ya...2200 for rank 1 is very low.

 

• constantius

Greater Heal : Rank 1 -- 899-1013, 370 mana, learned at level 40.

Ignoring the spell level, a fully talented +2000 GH:1 is indeed around 2900 minimum heal.

But GH:1 is given to us at level 40, so it does not scale completely, which drops it down quite a ways.

Remember: ((spell level)+6)/(player level) for bonuses to +healing.

If you remove Empowered Healing (assume someone has gone 23/38/0, with 0/5 Emp Heal, just for argument's sake), then GH:1 ends up topping out at around:

(1013+2000*3/3.5*46/70)*1.1 = 2353

If you have Empowered Healing, and 2000 +heal, then:

(1013+2000*1.2*3/3.5*46/70)*1.1 = 2601

So, sorry ... your GH:1 is *not* ever going to hit for 2900. The only way it would, doing the math backwards, would be if:

(2900/1.1 - 1013)*3.5*70/46/3/1.2 => 2400 +heal.

If you have 5/5 Emp Healing, and 2400 +heal, you would get a 2900 point top-end (TOP-end, not low-end, like you claim) Greater Heal: Rank 1.

Since most priests on these boards are not yet running 2000 +heal (I personally run 1900 raid buffed), and not all of us have 5/5 Empowered Healing, your statement is flawed.

With 3/5 Emp Healing, and +1700 healing, GH:1 hits for around 2300 top-end, 2175 average, as I claimed. I figured that was a reasonable baseline for the "average" raiding priest. Sorry I didn't make all of my assumptions clear.

Edit: I'm not at home, so I can't do the test, but the Spell Level coefficient hit may even happen at the END, which would hurt the spell even more. I'll do some tests when I get home and see what it actually is. If it's at the end, then there is no way in Molten Core anyone is breaking 2500 on GH:1.

 

Lazare

You are using an incorrect formula for calculating the downranking penalty. It is not given by 46/70, but by 51/70. You get a buffer starting from when you learn the NEXT level, meaning the correct formula is: ((next spell level) + 5)/(player level)

GHeal 1 hits for 899-1013
The base coefficient is 85.71%
The penalty multiplier is 72.86%
The Spiritual Healing multiplier is 110%

With reasonable assumptions (1800 +healing and 3/5 Emp HEaling) a non-crit GHeal 1 should average 2407, and top out at 2470. A crit would average 3610, and top out at 3704. Assume 8% crit and the true average is 2503.

With generous assumptions (2000 +healing and 5/5 Emp HEaling) a non-crit GHeal 1 should average 2645, and top out at 2708. A crit would average 3968, and top out at 4062. Assume 10% crit and the true average is 2778.

So...yeah, I don't see how Sunchips can possibly be seeing an average gheal 1 of 3k. Even counting crits that's an impossibly high value. On the other hand, any good holy priest should see their GHeal 1 have an expected average hit of 2.5k or better. If your average GHeal 1 is 2.2k, your doing something very badly wrong. Even if you ignore crits, that'd be pathetic. (Working backwards, you'd need 1400 healing and 3/5 emp healing to get a 2.2k average GHeal 1.)

 

• constantius

When I used the 2200 number, I was just vaguely recalling what I remembered my GH:1 hitting for when I randomly used it in IF on myself, and I remembered 22xx. A bit of quick math, and I convinced myself this was true.


This was with 1800+heal and 3/5 Emp Heal (I was the Imp DS bitch at that point). Given that I'm among the top 3 geared priests on my server, I figured getting something higher than that was a bit unreasonable, given that not all of us on these boards are farming BT/HS.

Heading home from work in a bit, so I'll run some actual field tests, and confirm these numbers.