Zure

Run your field tests with a tree druid in your target's group (minor) + imp amplify up on the target (major).

 

• constantius

Results:

30 casts of GH:1
1778 +heal (unbuffed)
5/5 Emp Healing

No other buffs, spells cast upon self, no auras, etc..

Max heal: 2640
Min heal: 2523
Max crit: 3910 (2606 heal value)

Confirms the value of 51/70 as the ratio for GH:1.

So if you have 5/5 Emp Healing, and you're reasonably geared, your GH:1 should hit for 2500+. If you have 0/0 Emp Healing, and repeat, 2350+.

2900? Not a chance. And counting crit heals into the average heal is, imo, a silly way to run things. What we care about is what the heal will reliably hit for, every time. A crit is almost always overheal when used on a non-tank. On tanks, it's amazing ... it'll catch you up from a burst, it'll proc Inspiration, etc, etc.. On a non-tank, it's mostly wasted healing.

 

Sunchips

Well you said a paladin with 2k +healing.

So why not compare a priest with 2k +healing.


My gheal rank 1 heals 2900-3200.

 

Lazare

Hmmm. I fail at theorycrafting. Emp Healing is a 20% bonus to GHeal. All the math in my last post used a 10% bonus. Gah. Anyhow, even once I plug the right value into the formula, there seems to be an error. With 1778 healing and your talent build I'd expect non-crit GHeal 1 to hit for a minimum of 2601. You saw one hit for as low as 2523. So...the theorycraft formulas I'm using are off. AFAIK:

So, the heal should bottom out at 2601, but you got 2523. Something must be wrong, but what? I've tried rearranging the order in various ways but...not seeing how to get a spread like that. Working backwards...

You have a range of 2523 - 2640. Without SH that's 2294 - 2400. Subtracting the base heal you must have an effective healing value of between 1387 and 1395. With 1778 +healing your effective coefficient is between 78.0%. and 78.4%. Theory predicts an effective coefficient of 82.45%. So...what's the error?

3/3.5 * 51/70 + 0.2 = 82.45% = Normal formula is wrong

3/3.5 * 51/70 * 1.2 = 74.9% = Emp Healing isn't multiplicative.
3/3.5 - (1 - 51/70) + 0.2 = 78.6% = Downrank penalty isn't additive.
3/3.5 * 47/70 + 0.2 = 77.6% = Downrank penalty isn't wrong.
3/3.5 * 48/70 + 0.2 = 78.8% = Downrank penalty isn't wrong.
(3/3.5 + 0.2) * 51/70 = 77.0% = Downrank penalty doesn't apply to Emp Healing.

So...I admit to some confusion. I'll try testing with 0/5 Emp Healing and see if that fits theory...


Edit: Okay, stupid question time. Wowhead lists GHeal 1 as 899 - 1013. My spellbook lists it as 924 - 1039. This is with all mods disabled, no buffs, naked, and with no points in holy, or in any disc or shadow talent that should effect it. What the hell am I missing?

 

tunah

Could be wrong, but I think the base healing on Gheal scales up with level, until you get a new rank. The numbers listed on wowhead would be those for the level when you learn the spell.

 

Doctah

Indeed it does, been using this set bonus for a while now and only wish the 4pc t5 was as useful, even the new version with an extra renew tick is largely useless.

 

Lazare

Hmm, learn something new every day. Okay, so using the correct values for GHeal 1 at 70, it appears Constantine was seeing an effective coefficient of 76.55% - 77.03%.

From my early number crunching, the only way to get a coefficient within that range is if the downranking penalty applies AFTER the Empowered Healing bonus; anything else would be inconsistent with Constantine's results That is, the correct formula is:
Given that, I'm going to say SunChips is just wrong. He says his minimum GHeal 1 is 2900 and he's seen it go as high as 3200, but theorycraft says the max is:
(1039 + (85.71% + 20%) * 72.86% * 2000) * 110% = 2837

Even if we use the original assumption that Emp Healing is applied after the downranking penalty (which would not give the result Constantine saw, so must be wrong), the theoretical max for GHeal 1 with 2k healing and 5/5 Emp Healing is 2956.

SunChips: Can I see a screenshot of a 3k+ non-crit GHeal 1? Without any procs, buffs, or set bonuses - because that's just way higher than any theory, calculator, or spreadsheet I know of predicts.



On an unrelated note, it appears that Emp Healing is extremely important in making downranking viable. With 1800 +healing and 5/5 Emp Healing a GHeal 1 should average 2605. If you drop to 0/5 Emp Healing your heal only averages 2316, and to get the same sized heal with 0/5 Emp Healing you'd need 2220 +healing. So at that gear level, when downranking, 5/5 Emp Healing is giving you an effective 420 +healing. That's pretty impressive no?

 

Sunchips

Well, unfortunately I'm not currently specced 5/5 empowered + CoH.


But this is what I got with 3/5 EH.





Also, in my comment of 2900-3200 range, I was assuming spirit buff and 5/5. I'll try and get another SS next week when I'm 5/5 again.



Yes, you definitely should not be downranking if you specced mental strength and not empowered healing. The empowered coefficient is not affected by downranking penalty. The downranking penalty goes to the initial coefficient. So if you have 2000 +healing. That 3/5 vs 5/5 is a loss of ~160 +healing no matter what rank of gheal you use. My screenshot has 2700 + gheal 1s. With 5/5 that would put them 2850-2900+ with imp DS pulling another 60 +healing.


This is why empowered healing priests gawk with tremendous befuddlement at priests that spec mental strength or PI.







Back to the original topic.

WWS from a Kael'thas tonight. Wow Web Stats

Off of 70 greater heal hits, my 2 piece t5 procced 55 times. Look for the buff gain titled, "Efficiency".

That's 5500 mana returned. 70 gheals at 2.5 seconds = 35 mp5 divisions. (not counting lag)

5500/35 = 157.143 mp5

Obviously, this number isn't for your total casting done because you're not going to be completely chain casting; however, it does give you an idea of how greatly the 2-piece t5 changes priest efficiency.


EDIT: Picture link died.

 

Lazare

2038 +healing and 3/5 Emp Healing...gives a predicted max of 2738. Your screenshot shows 2712, which is in line with theory.

5/5 Emp Healing would raise predicted max to 2870. Spirit Buff would add another 12.5 to your healing. Rounding up to 2051 +healing we get a predicted max of 2881.

Summary: Your missing 488 HP between your screenshot max and your claimed max of 3200. Sorry, but two points in Enh Healing are not going to increase your GHeal 1 by over 480 HP based on any formula I know of. Emp Healing is a kickass talent, but 2 points is in the neighborhood of an extra 8% of your total healing. You'd need something like 5500 +healing before 2 points in Enh Healing will have an effect of that magnitude.

So no, I don't believe you're breaking 2900 on a non-crit GHeal 1, no matter what your spec. That's just...way high.

 

Sunchips

The 2900-3200 was ballpark, used to point out that 2200 for gheal 1 is very low in comparing 2k pally to 2k priest.

 

• constantius

I will reiterate, from my perspective:

- when you say "+2k healing" you mean just that, not unbuffed. Fully raid buffed, +2k healing S&E
- 2200 is obviously low; I was remembering faulty data
- 2900 is still a bit high as a *min* value

However, I can easily see how Sunchips & I did it. We all have a rough ballpark of what our heals hit for, right? I "know" that #4 on my keypad hits for "about" 2500, and #5 is 2200-ish, and CTRL-2 is 5500.

And Sunchips is likely the same. He doesn't stop to go "oh, that # is 2650 healing" -- he just "knows" it's ballpark 2500, and that's when he uses it.

But when you remember the #s for each button ... how often do you stop and think about when the last time you checked it was? My 2200 # was from my Karazhan gear, around 1600 +heal (I had stacked regen to 265 Mp5 II5SR at that point). And it was off by ... not very much. For that gear set.

But with Empowered Healing (which I didn't have at that point), and up to +2k healing, it scales really really well. Enough that suddenly a top-end of 2865 is entirely viable.

And then you figure that once in a while, those heals will land on a ToL druid-aura'd target, or, even worse, on a warlock or rogue. And then you'll see non-crit GH:1 hits for 3200 or so.

And if you "remember" those hits, it's not a far stretch to think that that's "normal".

I'd say that if we did a poll and had every priest who frequents these forums to respond, you wouldn't find more than ... 5%? ... who actually break 2k healing unbuffed. It requires a fair bit of gear to do that without screwing over your regen : I note that Sunchips is wearing some very pretty T5, Belt of the Long Road, Boots of the Long Road, the Hyjal rep ring, 2 +heal trinkets, and the offhand from Al'ar. Not "everyday" gear.

If we averaged every healing priest's gear, I'm betting the average would be somewhere in the 1650-1700 +healing range. Because that's "normal" for a Karazhan priest who hasn't chosen to stack +18 healing gems.

 

Hiba

Considering there's very little fights in this game where you would not want to use amplify magic on tanks, 3000-3200 greater heal rank 1 hits are nothing uncommong on normal raiding.

Lightwell object increased in size to make it easier to click.

 

hitomitojite

Our guild just killed Bloodboil the other night. Actually, Imo, a lot of the fights in BT and Hjyal are not very friendly for us to use GH as our main heals. Of course, it is still the best spell for MT healing, but usually Paladins + druids combo is a better choice on MT healing. As for raid healing, GH = no no for fights like Teron Gorefiend, Winterchill and Azgalor. Not the best spell for fights like Bloodboil and Nejentus. That's almost half of the fights in BT and Hyjal. It is still a very good set bonus though.

I am looking forward to the t6 set bonus, as POH is still the best spell for any healing intensive fight other than ProM.

 

feiyin

I agree that G heal is not quick enough for Rage Winterchill and Azgalor, but personally I find it fine for Teron, Bloodboil, and Najentus.

On Bloodboil especially, it's vital to heal efficiently as it's a healing intensive fight, and losing your mana pool quickly is never a good thing. I have enough trouble keeping it up (it's one of the few fights where I really need an innervate), I can't imagine what it would be like spamming flash heal through most of it.

As for Najentus and Teron too, you'll find G Heal is perfectly fine, as long as your target isn't running low on HP. The only time I flash is right before the Naj'entus' shield is popped.

 

Warulex

uuuh yea o/

 

mickeyknox

more like the most delicious snack ever designed ¯\(O_o)/¯