[Warrior] Shield Block Value - Page 2

Diamedes · 06/28/07, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by dukes

There are more reasons you use warriors to tank than just crushing blows. Spell reflect is a required skill for some bosses/mobs unless you want to take very serious risks. 16% straight up magic mitigation is another reason, along with being able to break fear as an innate ability. They also get the best itemised gear for a pure-tanking situation (if druids had pure stam/agi gear with a bit of def or resillience added, it would be insane - warriors get 5-6 stats to spread their focus on which means they get more stat points for itemlevel on well itemised pieces and they get the pieces while druids generally don't for a pure-MT situation).

Block value is a perfectly viable system as it works right now - theres certainly no need to make shield block mitigate a fixed % of damage as it just makes it a second form of armour that works the same against all melee hits (and blizzard have already moved away from %based systems with the rating systems, as things were scaling too seriously for TBC).

Just want to comment on the second paragraph as it was said earlier by someone else. The percentage system wasn't working because of the gear that gives 1% crit, or 2% dodge, etc, that means at 70 a tank would keep there 50+% of avoidance and everyone would retain they're 30+% crit. So the rating system is good for that reason, but for certain things a % is good. For my SBV example of it reducing damage by a set percent, its good because on weak hitting mobs it will do less and on hard hitters reduces more. As it is now, its overpowered where we don't need it anyway(weak hitters) and reduces very little damage where it counts(raids). In the end its not a big deal because its designed around having that block value but its just something I wish we had from the beginning.

Also after thinking about my original thoughts some more no one has mentioned that shields themselves do give us about 10% armor mitigation which obviously scales so I can't say it doesn't scale at all.

bludwork · 06/28/07, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jamor

My opinion is that for pure threat gains, +hit up to the cap is a cheaper way to get that done. Over an extended time line, +hit up to the miss cap will correlate into threat directly via a %. If you remove 2% miss from your table, over time, that will equate to 2% threat.

But, SBV not only gives threat, but also mitigation at the same time. Which increases it's value. Another nice bonus of SBV is that it helps burst threat.

My feeling at this point, without a lot of in-dept testing, is that +weapon skill is the biggest boost to threat for a warrior tank. I know that people have been discussing the actual implications of +weapon skill, but a blue post (probably wrong, but it's all we have right now) indicated these numbers:

Taken from: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....geNo=1&sid=1#2

I feel the same way about +hit. Too many warriors ignore it, or are ignorant to their miss % against level 73 mobs. It's the easiest and cheapest way to increase threat. I would be great to get some numbers on how much hit% equates to threat% up until the miss% is 0

Frostshokk · 06/28/07, 4:56 PM

Would shield mastery also affect the damage of Shield Slam.. I'm guessing no, I'm prolly wrong though..

Sepulture · 06/28/07, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by Frostshokk

Would shield mastery also affect the damage of Shield Slam.. I'm guessing no, I'm prolly wrong though..

Yes, it does.

You should read this *thoroughly* before posting again. There may be a quiz.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...75381044&sid=1

Tharas · 06/28/07, 7:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sepulture

Yes, it does.

You should read this *thoroughly* before posting again. There may be a quiz.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...75381044&sid=1

Good to see Ciderhelm updating his posts. I was perusing to see what was new and saw this line (I know this is slightly OT, but need to graft this onto at least a semi-relevant thread):

Improved Demoralizing Shout is not effective past 2 talent points for Burning Crusade bosses.

I did some searching and didn't see the theorycraft that backs that assertion up, and it's news to me (or the reasons for the specificity to TBC bosses).

Xerophyte · 06/28/07, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Sepulture

I did some searching and didn't see the theorycraft that backs that assertion up, and it's news to me (or the reasons for the specificity to TBC bosses).

See: Curse of Weakness

Short of the thread is that far as we can tell through Beast Lore on mobs succeptible to that skill, no beast currently in the game - regular mobs, L70 elites and up to and The Lurker Below - has their damage further reduced after a ~320 AP reduction. The current working theory is that mobs simply don't have more AP than that.

This basically means that Improved Demoralising Shout is only of real use when you Curse of Recklessness the mob. 'course, given that you should CoR the mob in most situations, this means that IDS is still quite useful. Just not as good as it looks like.

On Shield Mastery improving Shield Slam; yes, it and 1h speck both actually. The latter is a 10% increase to every damaging attack you do with a 1h weapon equipped, including things done with a shield. They conspire to add a good 43% more threat to each Block Value compared to the baseline .169 TPS/BV I calculated last page, putting us at .242 TPS/BV. You still need about 33 BV for a 1% threat increase and it's still worse than hit or skill on a per itembudget basis, but I do agree that it's certainly much more obtainable on decent tankgear. My intention was more reacting to the blanket statement that BV was the "best" stat for threat more than making a serious case for chosing gear.

That said, I do think hit is relevant for sockets. Rigid Dawnstones are at the very least useful and possibly optimal for those backup Vambracers of Courage and Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden you've replaced with other pieces as primary tanking gear but use as threat gear thanks to their BV.