soulesschild

Is there a way to reliably see if Scorpid Sting actually works? I figured using WWS and having a tank on gruul with one raid not using scorpid at all, and another using scorpid to check the missed %, but I'm not sure how accurate that will end up. The reason I'm curious is that I'm always asked to keep it up since I'm survival and all the other hunters are BM and I tend to forget really and it got me thinking on how useful it really is and if I should take some time to write out a cast sequence macro to incorporate scorpid into it. Anyone else have any thoughts/opinions?

 

◊ Turik

I had the wrong tanking libram up, and was crushed several time when scorpid sting was off, and was never crushed with it up.


Which is of course, anecdotal.

 

soulesschild

Isn't crushing independent of miss rate? Or do I not understand paladin tanking mechanics?

 

• Glaurong

Miss has a higher precedence than crush in the attack table generation.

Miss
Dodge
Parry
Block
Crit
Crush
Normal

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

◊ Turik

The latter

See above.

 

◊ Turik

Sorry, was doing illhoof. To further explain, the reason 5% miss from scropid sting matters, is on my real tanking gear, I stradle the 102.4% avoidance realy closely to get the maximum out of my stamina gear. In order to do so, I need a 5% to block libram. I forgot to equip it.

Hunter put up scorpid sting, negating the 5% loss from the libram, but when it fell off, I was crushed.

Then again, statistically, it's anecdotal, so ultimately, not worth much.

 

soulesschild

That actually brings up a good point though, maybe paladin tanks are better to use for tanking?

BTW, thanks Glaurong for enlightening me, I play and theorycraft hunters too much :P

 

Arcazua

I would find a target that your pet can attack for a really long time. I guess the only real option for that, as something with low enough DPS but that won't die, is the Blasted Lands ghosts. Let it get hit for a long time while you just mend it. Start a new log, and maintain Scorpid Sting, and check the difference.

 

• Glaurong

Get an really low level pet (lvl 30 should do) test it against a blasted lands mob. Mend pet should be enough to keep it alive forever and you can keep using FD to drop the healing threat.

The huge difference in defense/weapon skill should net you near 0% miss rate. The difference should be obvious with scorpid up.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

◊ Oggie

This shouldn't really be required. Just go to BL with your current pet and /combatlog for an hour or so, then close that file and mark it, then do the exact same thing with the sting up.

 

Sapa

Sting works fine.
Find dual wield mob, results show faster there. (Prince M) We had serious problems with him months back, healers just couldn't heal 60-30% tank was getting to much hits (cant block all of his attacks due dual wield fast attack speed) Fight was almost trivialized with scorpid+insect swarm up during 60-30%.

On hard hitting, fast hitting or healer going oom fights I definitely try and keep scorpid up 100%. It even works on WW/Cleave mobs. (TK trash, Leo WW).

Hunter in SP group should be in charge for it.
We have SSC tonight, will parse Tidewalker & Leo fight with 100% scorpid uptime if possible.

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/511456SFyyX.png

 

soulesschild

Thanks Sapa for the info, I look forward to your logs. I'm a dumb noob and forgot to enable autoCL and didn't parse tonights gruul fight >< go me.

 

sp00n

Another question, are there any bosses where Scorpid Sting does not work and if so, did somebody compile a list of those?
I.e. immune to nature damage or whatever.

Item Ranking Rogue [horribly outdated]

 

Sapa

Hydross and Void Reaver spring to mind. (NR immune and Poison immune)

Basically elementals and mechanical ones.
Not sure for Doomwalker, but since it "looks" like reaver I'd say he is immune too.

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/511456SFyyX.png

 

Pyria

Assuming it's the same mechanic as rogue poisons, they'll work fine on Doomwalker but not on Void Reaver. Other mobs I've noted as being poison immune are the Curator in Kara and Vashj's elemental adds (but not like those matter for purposes of this discussion).

The whole elemental/mechanical thing is annoyingly arbitrary at times since while Hydross is immune to poisons entirely in both phases, they work fine on Al'ar + adds and Murmur.

 

Phoenix

I know this may not be a huge issue due to the general lack of balance Druids guilds but as one has just joined our guild, does anyone know if Insect Swarm and Scorpid Sting stack for a total of 7% miss or does the Sting overwrite Insect Swarm for only 5% miss ?

 

soulesschild

I believe they stack.

 

Myul

Just take a look at the posting of Glaurong

The 2% additional miss of insect swarm is just added to the 5% miss of scorpid sting.

 

Krypt

Scorpid I have found invaluable on encounters with fast hitters such as Bloodboil. Even more so on the Fel Raged target. However on some fights the MT has shouted at me for it, such as Grull where he can often get huge avoidance streaks.

As a general rule of thumb, i just use it on fast or extremly heavy hitters where healing can be dodgy due to unlucky crushings. Afew examples of this are Prince, Teron, and Gutrogg.

 

Ramielle

Just chiming in as a tank here. Scorpid sting is far more powerful than 5% less damage taken, and this effect is magnified against dual wielding mobs.

Reason, take a tank with a total 55% avoidance, which is reasonable against 73 raid bosses. Without scorpid sting, the tank will be hit 45% of the time. With scorpid sting, the tank will be hit 40% of the time. 40/45= 88.9% damage compared to before before, meaning an 11% reduction in incoming damage.

Now a further example, take a tank with 55% avoidance against a dual wielding target which grants an additional 19% chance to miss. Without scorpid, the tank will be hit 26% of the time. With scorpid and insect swarm, the tank will be hit 19% of the time. 19/26=73.1% damage compared to before, meaning over a 25% reduction in incoming damage.


The gains become better and better as tank avoidance improves. Note that if a target does not have crush or crit immunity, the gains caused by this won't be quite as good.

 

tha_bishop

I am really surprised at how good scorpid sting seems to be. Should talk about it in my guild !

 

Fimbo

Same here...

This thread opened my eyes to an ability i'd written off pre-tbc.

Playing around with it last night on hard hitting melee mobs, wondering if it will be of use in places like Heroic SH or UB where there's physical trash mobs hitting hard.

Will give it a proper try on the Prince soon as well and see if the healers feel a difference.

 

Evolve

going to try it right away as I was heading for heroic ramps just while reading this (its a nuby heroic I know, but the difference shld be pretty noticable for a healer)

 

soulesschild

This thread has given alot of useful information and I'm still in the process of testing it out on raid bosses, though kinda suchs that Void Reaver is immune to poisons.

 

Myul

I have to disagree. Especially on an encounter with a fast hitting mob, scorping sting should shine. Shieldblock only provides up to 2 high chances to block every 5s. That's why you often will get 1 crush, sometimes 2 and once every 29th february 3 crushings against a very fast hitting mob (eg prince with 1.0 as). Wouldn't you?