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06/27/07, 11:01 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
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[HUNTER]Scorpid Sting, a way to really calculate/see effects?
Is there a way to reliably see if Scorpid Sting actually works? I figured using WWS and having a tank on gruul with one raid not using scorpid at all, and another using scorpid to check the missed %, but I'm not sure how accurate that will end up. The reason I'm curious is that I'm always asked to keep it up since I'm survival and all the other hunters are BM and I tend to forget really and it got me thinking on how useful it really is and if I should take some time to write out a cast sequence macro to incorporate scorpid into it. Anyone else have any thoughts/opinions?
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06/28/07, 12:18 AM
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#2 (permalink)
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New Avatar is New
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I had the wrong tanking libram up, and was crushed several time when scorpid sting was off, and was never crushed with it up.
Which is of course, anecdotal.
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06/28/07, 12:40 AM
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#3 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
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Isn't crushing independent of miss rate? Or do I not understand paladin tanking mechanics?
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06/28/07, 1:32 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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King Hippo
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Miss has a higher precedence than crush in the attack table generation.
Miss
Dodge
Parry
Block
Crit
Crush
Normal
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06/28/07, 1:33 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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New Avatar is New
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Originally Posted by soulesschild
Isn't crushing independent of miss rate? Or do I not understand paladin tanking mechanics?
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The latter
See above.
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06/28/07, 1:35 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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New Avatar is New
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Sorry, was doing illhoof. To further explain, the reason 5% miss from scropid sting matters, is on my real tanking gear, I stradle the 102.4% avoidance realy closely to get the maximum out of my stamina gear. In order to do so, I need a 5% to block libram. I forgot to equip it.
Hunter put up scorpid sting, negating the 5% loss from the libram, but when it fell off, I was crushed.
Then again, statistically, it's anecdotal, so ultimately, not worth much.
Last edited by Turik : 06/28/07 at 2:07 AM.
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06/28/07, 1:36 AM
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#7 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
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That actually brings up a good point though, maybe paladin tanks are better to use for tanking?
BTW, thanks Glaurong for enlightening me, I play and theorycraft hunters too much :P
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06/28/07, 2:05 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Lightbringer
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I would find a target that your pet can attack for a really long time. I guess the only real option for that, as something with low enough DPS but that won't die, is the Blasted Lands ghosts. Let it get hit for a long time while you just mend it. Start a new log, and maintain Scorpid Sting, and check the difference.
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06/28/07, 2:20 AM
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#9 (permalink)
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King Hippo
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Get an really low level pet (lvl 30 should do) test it against a blasted lands mob. Mend pet should be enough to keep it alive forever and you can keep using FD to drop the healing threat.
The huge difference in defense/weapon skill should net you near 0% miss rate. The difference should be obvious with scorpid up.
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06/28/07, 3:58 AM
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#10 (permalink)
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I am speccing scrivener in wotlk
Dwarf Paladin
Lightbringer
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Originally Posted by Glaurong
Get an really low level pet (lvl 30 should do) test it against a blasted lands mob. Mend pet should be enough to keep it alive forever and you can keep using FD to drop the healing threat.
The huge difference in defense/weapon skill should net you near 0% miss rate. The difference should be obvious with scorpid up.
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This shouldn't really be required. Just go to BL with your current pet and /combatlog for an hour or so, then close that file and mark it, then do the exact same thing with the sting up.
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06/28/07, 4:36 AM
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#11 (permalink)
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Piston Honda
Troll Hunter
Mazrigos (EU)
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Sting works fine.
Find dual wield mob, results show faster there. (Prince M) We had serious problems with him months back, healers just couldn't heal 60-30% tank was getting to much hits (cant block all of his attacks due dual wield fast attack speed) Fight was almost trivialized with scorpid+insect swarm up during 60-30%.
On hard hitting, fast hitting or healer going oom fights I definitely try and keep scorpid up 100%. It even works on WW/Cleave mobs. (TK trash, Leo WW).
Hunter in SP group should be in charge for it.
We have SSC tonight, will parse Tidewalker & Leo fight with 100% scorpid uptime if possible.
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06/28/07, 4:39 AM
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#12 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
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Thanks Sapa for the info, I look forward to your logs. I'm a dumb noob and forgot to enable autoCL and didn't parse tonights gruul fight >< go me.
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06/28/07, 5:29 AM
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#13 (permalink)
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Bald Bull
Night Elf Rogue
Wrathbringer (EU)
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Another question, are there any bosses where Scorpid Sting does not work and if so, did somebody compile a list of those?
I.e. immune to nature damage or whatever.
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06/28/07, 5:34 AM
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#14 (permalink)
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Piston Honda
Troll Hunter
Mazrigos (EU)
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Originally Posted by sp00n
Another question, are there any bosses where Scorpid Sting does not work and if so, did somebody compile a list of those?
I.e. immune to nature damage or whatever.
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Hydross and Void Reaver spring to mind. (NR immune and Poison immune)
Basically elementals and mechanical ones.
Not sure for Doomwalker, but since it "looks" like reaver I'd say he is immune too.
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06/28/07, 9:31 AM
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#15 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Rogue
Argent Dawn (EU)
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Originally Posted by Sapa
Not sure for Doomwalker, but since it "looks" like reaver I'd say he is immune too.
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Assuming it's the same mechanic as rogue poisons, they'll work fine on Doomwalker but not on Void Reaver. Other mobs I've noted as being poison immune are the Curator in Kara and Vashj's elemental adds (but not like those matter for purposes of this discussion).
The whole elemental/mechanical thing is annoyingly arbitrary at times since while Hydross is immune to poisons entirely in both phases, they work fine on Al'ar + adds and Murmur.
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06/28/07, 10:08 AM
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#16 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
Dwarf Warrior
Outland (EU)
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I know this may not be a huge issue due to the general lack of balance Druids guilds but as one has just joined our guild, does anyone know if Insect Swarm and Scorpid Sting stack for a total of 7% miss or does the Sting overwrite Insect Swarm for only 5% miss ?
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06/29/07, 12:07 AM
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#17 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Phoenix
I know this may not be a huge issue due to the general lack of balance Druids guilds but as one has just joined our guild, does anyone know if Insect Swarm and Scorpid Sting stack for a total of 7% miss or does the Sting overwrite Insect Swarm for only 5% miss ?
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I believe they stack.
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06/29/07, 2:24 AM
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#18 (permalink)
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Piston Honda
Draenei Shaman
Eredar (EU)
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Just take a look at the posting of Glaurong
Originally Posted by Glaurong
Miss
Dodge
Parry
Block
Crit
Crush
Normal
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The 2% additional miss of insect swarm is just added to the 5% miss of scorpid sting.
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06/29/07, 6:20 AM
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#19 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Hunter
Trollbane (EU)
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Scorpid I have found invaluable on encounters with fast hitters such as Bloodboil. Even more so on the Fel Raged target. However on some fights the MT has shouted at me for it, such as Grull where he can often get huge avoidance streaks.
As a general rule of thumb, i just use it on fast or extremly heavy hitters where healing can be dodgy due to unlucky crushings. Afew examples of this are Prince, Teron, and Gutrogg.
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06/29/07, 8:31 AM
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#20 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Warrior
Turalyon
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Just chiming in as a tank here. Scorpid sting is far more powerful than 5% less damage taken, and this effect is magnified against dual wielding mobs.
Reason, take a tank with a total 55% avoidance, which is reasonable against 73 raid bosses. Without scorpid sting, the tank will be hit 45% of the time. With scorpid sting, the tank will be hit 40% of the time. 40/45= 88.9% damage compared to before before, meaning an 11% reduction in incoming damage.
Now a further example, take a tank with 55% avoidance against a dual wielding target which grants an additional 19% chance to miss. Without scorpid, the tank will be hit 26% of the time. With scorpid and insect swarm, the tank will be hit 19% of the time. 19/26=73.1% damage compared to before, meaning over a 25% reduction in incoming damage.
The gains become better and better as tank avoidance improves. Note that if a target does not have crush or crit immunity, the gains caused by this won't be quite as good.
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06/29/07, 9:10 AM
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#21 (permalink)
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Frostmane (EU)
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I am really surprised at how good scorpid sting seems to be. Should talk about it in my guild !
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06/29/07, 10:20 AM
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#22 (permalink)
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Grumpy Hunter
Tauren Hunter
Al'Akir (EU)
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Originally Posted by tha_bishop
I am really surprised at how good scorpid sting seems to be. Should talk about it in my guild !
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Same here...
This thread opened my eyes to an ability i'd written off pre-tbc.
Playing around with it last night on hard hitting melee mobs, wondering if it will be of use in places like Heroic SH or UB where there's physical trash mobs hitting hard.
Will give it a proper try on the Prince soon as well and see if the healers feel a difference.
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06/29/07, 3:27 PM
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#23 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Druid
Magtheridon (EU)
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Originally Posted by Fimbo
Same here...
This thread opened my eyes to an ability i'd written off pre-tbc.
Playing around with it last night on hard hitting melee mobs, wondering if it will be of use in places like Heroic SH or UB where there's physical trash mobs hitting hard.
Will give it a proper try on the Prince soon as well and see if the healers feel a difference.
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going to try it right away as I was heading for heroic ramps just while reading this  (its a nuby heroic I know, but the difference shld be pretty noticable for a healer)
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06/29/07, 10:22 PM
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#24 (permalink)
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Von Kaiser
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This thread has given alot of useful information and I'm still in the process of testing it out on raid bosses, though kinda suchs that Void Reaver is immune to poisons.
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06/29/07, 11:59 PM
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#25 (permalink)
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Piston Honda
Draenei Shaman
Eredar (EU)
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Originally Posted by Krypt
Scorpid I have found invaluable on encounters with fast hitters such as Bloodboil. Even more so on the Fel Raged target. However on some fights the MT has shouted at me for it, such as Grull where he can often get huge avoidance streaks.
As a general rule of thumb, i just use it on fast or extremly heavy hitters where healing can be dodgy due to unlucky crushings. Afew examples of this are Prince, Teron, and Gutrogg.
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I have to disagree. Especially on an encounter with a fast hitting mob, scorping sting should shine. Shieldblock only provides up to 2 high chances to block every 5s. That's why you often will get 1 crush, sometimes 2 and once every 29th february 3 crushings against a very fast hitting mob (eg prince with 1.0 as). Wouldn't you?
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