[Warrior] Sustained TPS / WWSed - Page 2

Obould · 07/10/07, 5:08 AM

UPDATE:

WWS does not report in the landed hits also the landed crits so for a correct value on skill threat i had to add the number of landed crits

Evidence: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...=3912-4204&a=5

Press on the 381 number

You will get a detailed window with also the landed crits now!!

Heroic Strike DMG = AvgHitDmg x LandedHits + AvgCritDmg x LandedCrits
Heroic Strike DMG = 381 x 76 + 759 x 17 = 41,859

Note: Thanks to Luciolle for this finding

Lumi · 07/10/07, 9:11 AM

I don't see demo shout in any of the warrior's WWS sections. I also see he had to keep up his own thunderclap (and probably his own demo shout) and had no windfury.

D4vE · 07/10/07, 10:24 AM

Yes, demo shout as well as sunder armor is very hard to track in WWS.

See this post for the first calculations we made and the assumptions which where taken:
Future of a DPS Warrior

Most WWS we checked out don't have a shaman in MT group, most common is either 2 warriors or 1 warrior and 1 feral druid. It would be interesting to get a WWS parse of a fully "threat" buffed tank though.

Agren · 07/10/07, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Lumi

I don't see demo shout in any of the warrior's WWS sections. I also see he had to keep up his own thunderclap (and probably his own demo shout) and had no windfury.

Demo shout is not attributable to any player from the combat log, it's only attributed when it resists. Debuffs and buffs on bosses also are not affected by the combat log extensions, so if a WWS is done from a log of a player at range, they may not appear in the combat log due to range.

galzohar · 07/10/07, 2:06 PM

Afaik because how the combat log works, ktm/omen add up all threat done on mobs with the same name, so if you pull 2X of the same mob it'll add up the threat on both looking as if the threat wasn't split. I suggest testing on a double pull of mobs with different names.

Vulpes · 07/20/07, 1:21 PM

Please write lossendil to ADD TPS calculations into his stats package. TPS has become a huge topic

Apate · 07/20/07, 1:59 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to keep WWS to "hard topics"

Threat is still somewhat of a grey area. I'd rather see an alternative tool to do it than have people look at a WWS log and assume it is right. Omen and KTM already cause enough of this, grateful as I am to have the tools.

Coeus · 07/20/07, 3:41 PM

Originally Posted by Vulpes

Please write lossendil to ADD TPS calculations into his stats package. TPS has become a huge topic

From the WWS forum moderator:

Originally Posted by SoaD!

Actually it is not possible to calculate threat generated because of some talents modifiers, so this feature cannot be implemented in wws.

As it stands, WWS doesn't have to really know anything about internal game mechanics. It just reads raw data that isn't affected by patches changing Threat values, talents, or anything. 500 damage is 500 damage. Always. TPS opens a whole new cans of worms. I'd love to see it, but I don't think it's going to happen.

D4vE · 07/21/07, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Apate

I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to keep WWS to "hard topics"

Threat is still somewhat of a grey area. I'd rather see an alternative tool to do it than have people look at a WWS log and assume it is right. Omen and KTM already cause enough of this, grateful as I am to have the tools.

Yes, this was the whole point of this thread. People claiming their tanks sustaining 1200, 1500, 1600 (!) TPS, in various threads, just irked us. So we started to analyze things and WWS just provided serious data for it. Calculations and accuracy evolved with this and other threads, but in the end it's really simple: take the raw damage done, take number of skills used multiplied by their initial threat and take the amount of passive threat gained by healing and rage gain. Apply a threat modifier and you should have a total number of threat generated by the tank over the fight. The ~1k TPS example in the original post was the highest threat we could find at lossendil up to this point.

We did the calculations with a simple excel sheet, I guess an alternative program to read out TPS from WWS data should not be too hard to develop. Keep in mind though, that comparable threat values are only present in a handful of fights at the moment:
Prince, Gruul, Magtheridon ph2, Na'jentus, Gorefiend (and most of the hyjal bosses after the trash waves are done) come to mind.

RPZip · 07/21/07, 12:58 PM

WWS can't keep track of Sunder Armor applications (or Imp. Demo or any other pure debuff) because it doesn't appear in the combat log. This is a fairly minor issue now due to Devastate replacing it for Prot tanks, but this makes it rather difficult to produce a truly accurate threat reading based solely off the combat log. It also gets to ignore threat modifiers (Defensive, Defiance, Threat to Gloves enchant come to mind).

And i hardly belive WF will bump TPS by 100.......

IMO on such fights like Teron, were your rage bar is filled, you hardly get any raw white dmg anymore let me explain why i think it is like this:

Count all hits from HS/SS/REV/DEV: 174
Count all raw white hits: 30

Lets assume 20% proc chance for WF on the sum of this attacks = 200 .... so 20% = 40

Note:
I dont even know if SS / DEV procs WF, do all skills still proc it i know Sunder does but i dont think DEV does please someone check this!!

Dev procs it, which is kind of handy when you're DPSing as a Prot Warrior (see: Aran).

Sunchips · 07/24/07, 2:00 PM

Just curious, how easy it would be to just plug and chug my tanks numbers from our gorefiend kill into your post? I'd love to see what my tank was doing. Omen read him at 1200-1300 tps; but other people said it was reading at 2k so that's a bit rediculous.

I sent you a PM with the WWS, I'll probably just try and run the numbers myself based on what you did.

EDIT: Here's the WWS if anyone else wants to take a stab at it. Tank is Zyklonj.

Wow Web Stats

Llilyth · 07/24/07, 2:55 PM

Omen read him at 1200-1300 tps; but other people said it was reading at 2k so that's a bit rediculous.

Your raid probably needs to update Omen. TPS calculations used to be bugged and showed numbers that were way too high.

Sunchips · 07/24/07, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Llilyth

Your raid probably needs to update Omen. TPS calculations used to be bugged and showed numbers that were way too high.

Its definitely way too high. I ran the numbers following Obould's calculations and got a 769.7 sustained TPS. At the same time our raids dps was about 4k dps lower than the sample that Obould used.

Sukaflops · 07/24/07, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Sunchips

Its definitely way too high. I ran the numbers following Obould's calculations and got a 769.7 sustained TPS. At the same time our raids dps was about 4k dps lower than the sample that Obould used.

That amount of threat seems a lot more realistic that 2000 TPS that is for sure

Only 10 TPS that my MT was doing,

which sadly was not enough and we had to get rid of WF for the melee

Sunchips · 07/24/07, 3:43 PM

We didn't have any issues aggro wise is the thing.

770 seems very low but afaik the only person with issues that night was an affliction lock (who got an early ghost call on the kill) and our fury warrior. 4 rogues, 3 with WF and BS, the other with GoA, LoTP and 2 BM hunters and 770 TPS was enough to hold their 1100-1200 dps down.

I dunno maybe I did the calculations wrong; followed Obould's model to a T, just plugging in my tanks values in place.