[Warrior] Sustained TPS / WWSed - Page 7

bobtheorc · 01/24/08, 10:29 PM

What are people's thoughts of rotating shaman to bloodlust the main tank party?

Xav · 01/25/08, 2:11 AM

You'd only bloodlust/heroism the main tank if the rest of the raid is going to get it too, and if it wouldn't be wasted. Generally there's 2 melee groups nowadays, for us anyway, one of the melee groups has the main tank in it. So I get a heroism on say Gorefiend, but only because the rest of my group is too, and benefits. The added threat shouldn't be needed on most things unless people are pushing as hard as they can, as fast as they can.

On anything that isn't like, Gorefiend, you probably don't want to be giving Heroism to the MT. Although it can certainly help in RoS phase 3 as well.

Coolyo · 01/25/08, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kiklerakos

Is it possible to get a Druid version of this threat calculator?

I stopped playing some months ago

but if i get time, i will maybe make one for druids aswell

sabinsmain · 01/25/08, 7:42 PM

so i was reading and wondering if someone could cruch the numbers of our guilds first gorefiend kill and see how much tps i was putting out. MY DPS said i was putting out a lot of threat and i was hoping to see how much sustained tps i was doin

WWS Loading...

Xav · 01/25/08, 8:06 PM

Are you blind? A link was posted just a few posts above that has a threat calculator that you put your WWS report logs into. Putting your page in gives you 889 TPS, which is pretty horrible, to be honest.

Here's the link, again. Kenneth Gant Niebuhr - Online portfolie

Reikki · 01/28/08, 11:08 AM

Hi,

The Thread Starter calculates the Threat from Heroic Strike Rank 11 (220 Base Threat?). There is no Heroic Strike Rank 11
avaiable in the Game or do i miss something?

Xav · 01/28/08, 12:47 PM

Heroic Strike rank 11 is just datamined and in the game files but not obtainable, no worries

Orcheon · 02/08/08, 2:27 PM

Got another good one.

WWS Loading...

Is the calculator accurate? Running my own numbers, i'm coming up with about a 100 TPS difference.

Xav · 02/08/08, 4:03 PM

The calculator is accurate. Are you properly accounting for threat from heals, at the 50% rate? Remember, Leader of the Pack heals do not count for any threat, Earth Shield, JoL, PoM do, though.

Ulise · 03/07/08, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Casket

A fellow guild-mate of mine suggested that I post here because my TPS is usually pretty high. I see that Teron Gorefiend is the boss of choice for testing so here's a WWS link of myself tanking him. Granted this was not a kill shot (yeah yeah we normally one-shot him but people can still mess up with their ghosts), but we still did 4.9m damage to him so it was close enough to a kill shot to count.

Casket - WWS

When placed in the TPS calculator:

Battle time in seconds: 266

Heroic Strike:
Amount: 45185 Hits: 81 Crits: 18 Dmg Threat: 67551.575 Skill Threat: 32561.1
Shield slam:
Amount: 26720 Hits: 26 Crits: 3 Dmg Threat: 39946.4 Skill Threat: 13309.985
Melee:
Amount: 10768 Hits: 28 Crits: 9 Dmg Threat: 16098.16 Skill Threat: 0
Revenge:
Amount: 13982 Hits: 23 Crits: 7 Dmg Threat: 20903.09 Skill Threat: 9014.85
Devastate:
Amount: 15320 Hits: 41 Crits: 5 Dmg Threat: 22903.4 Skill Threat: 6945.77
Shield Bash:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Cleave:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Thunder Clap:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Reflect:
Amount: 1639 Hits: 64 Crits: Dmg Threat: 2450.305 Skill Threat: 0
Vengeance:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Thunderfury:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Deep Wound:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Lifebloom:
Amount: 49872 Overheal: 42% Threat: 28925.76
Earthshield:
Amount: 8065 Overheal: 3% Threat: 7823.05
Prayer of Mending:
Amount: 3925 Overheal: 0% Threat: 3925

Total amount of dmg threat: 169852.93
Total amount of skill threat: 61831.705
Total amount of healing threat: 34799.785

TPS: 1001.8211278195

Note: I did not have WF or BS.

Hey Casket,

What kind of gear did you have?
Because I only have T6 gloves (and in general BT tanking gear), while my log is pretty close to yours: No WF nor BS and I kept up TC, demo, CS and shield block.

The fight itself is identical: 269 seconds and 4.8m damage:
Battle time in seconds: 269

Heroic Strike:
Amount: 32389 Hits: 66 Crits: 9 Dmg Threat: 48421.555 Skill Threat: 24667.5
Shield slam:
Amount: 22683 Hits: 25 Crits: 5 Dmg Threat: 33911.085 Skill Threat: 13768.95
Melee:
Amount: 18837 Hits: 58 Crits: 15 Dmg Threat: 28161.315 Skill Threat: 0
Revenge:
Amount: 16194 Hits: 27 Crits: 8 Dmg Threat: 24210.03 Skill Threat: 10517.325
Devastate:
Amount: 16386 Hits: 51 Crits: 5 Dmg Threat: 24497.07 Skill Threat: 8455.72
Shield Bash:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Cleave:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Thunder Clap:
Amount: 1409 Hits: 8 Crits: Dmg Threat: 2106.455 Skill Threat: 3686.29625
Reflect:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Vengeance:
Amount: 484 Hits: 5 Crits: Dmg Threat: 723.58 Skill Threat: 0
Thunderfury:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Deep Wound:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Lifebloom:
Amount: Overheal: % Threat: 0
Earthshield:
Amount: 26392 Overheal: 3% Threat: 25600.24
Prayer of Mending:
Amount: 47854 Overheal: 10% Threat: 43068.6

Total amount of dmg threat: 162031.09
Total amount of skill threat: 61095.79125
Total amount of healing threat: 34334.42

TPS: 957.10520910781

Does anyone have any suggestions?

I see that I have more Devastes/HS vs Casket, but I don't think that's bad...
I also have more melee, meaning that probably was too conservative with my cycles, or trying to debuff the boss/heal myself.
Oh yeah and I usually OT now, alas :P

/Happy hunting!

zork · 03/10/08, 1:32 PM

I just made a new threat calculator to get some data out of WWS logs.

WWS Log:
Rothar WWS Log from Gorefiend Firstkill

Calculator:
TPS Calculator

Can you give it a look, I hope that everything is correct.

I got some questions:
- How is healing threat handled in defensive stance?
- Is half the heal multiplied with the threat_multiplier too?
- Do the 108004 healing that are summed up in the WWS log include overhealing?

Coolyo · 04/01/08, 3:57 AM

UPDATE:

- Changed Melee to Swing
- Old logs (Melee) wont be calculated

Solina · 04/07/08, 8:02 PM

Is it me or is the website down atm ?

Fredaykin · 04/08/08, 6:46 AM

It's not just you, looks like the DNS resolution was somehow "tuned"
Hope it gets back to normal quickly.

Coolyo · 04/08/08, 7:37 AM

UPDATE:

- My domain is getting moved to another server since it didnt used php5 :o should only take 24 hours... but im still waiting :P

Saburo · 04/08/08, 9:25 AM

Saburo - WWS
I got 1643 tps using the calculator provided. I wasn't using my full tps gear because there really is not reason to do so. The dps are not even remotely close to catching me in my current gear. I also did not have WF, which would have likely helped a great deal since I had lucky/unlucky string of dodges and my tps tanked (get it??).

I had a fight a while back where I used my max tps gear and had WF. I was quite surprised at my threat since it was over 2k almost the whole time and never dropped below 1800 tps, spiking up to 3k for a while with a lucky string of crits during bloodlust, unfortunately i don't have a parse for that night.

I am a pvper turned pve and as such just started BT (5/9 atm). As such my hit is still low in tps gear, once I can get some tanking loot to drop and pick up the belt from badges ill get another good parse of what is possible.

f1reburn · 04/08/08, 2:06 PM

I have a suspicion that our main tank's threat isn't as good as it could be, considering his gear. I find myself struggling with my threat most of the fights, such as delaying activating my cooldowns until 30-60 seconds into a fight, and having to use Invisability before every Heroism.

Last night's Teron
Calculated threat

Typical MH/BT run

Now I don't know much about protection warriors, from the protection warrior threat I read that the normal latency rotation is Shield slam -> Revenge -> Devastate -> Devastate -> repeat. I think he does use this rotation as I count about twice as many Devastates as Shieldslams, but he seems to be using Heroic Strike a lot less than other warriors in this thread, and Swing more often than average.

Is this basically an issue of not using Heroic Strike enough? From listening on vent he spams his keyboard buttons like no other, so I didn't expect this outcome.

Crimsonstorm · 04/08/08, 4:26 PM

Originally Posted by f1reburn

Is this basically an issue of not using Heroic Strike enough? From listening on vent he spams his keyboard buttons like no other, so I didn't expect this outcome.

Probably. Either that or his latency is bad.

Generally when tanking I am spamming two buttons at once, heroic strike plus my attack cycle. I have Shield Block on 1, Heroic strike on 2, Dev 3, Rev 4, SS 5. So my button mashing goes (when I have rage, and once into the cycle):
1+2+3
2+3
2+4
2+5
1+2+3

etc. Generally trying to heroic strike most attacks, I usually end up with about 75% of my swings being heroic strikes.

ioguolo · 04/11/08, 2:32 PM

I would like to thank the author of the website. In doing some number crunches I was able to hit 1011.67 TPS. I'm still undergeared for where we are (still using nightbane shield etc...) but with the efficiency our raid runs, I'm able to keep up with thier dps.

SS -> Rev -> Dev -> Dev

Battle time in seconds: 258

Heroic Strike: Amount: 47718 Hits: 104 Crits: 10 Dmg Threat: 71338.41 Skill Threat: 37494.6
Shield slam: Amount: 22578 Hits: 29 Crits: 2 Dmg Threat: 33754.11 Skill Threat: 14227.915
Swing: Amount: 5747 Hits: 16 Crits: 4 Dmg Threat: 8591.765 Skill Threat: 0
Revenge: Amount: 10863 Hits: 28 Crits: 1 Dmg Threat: 16240.185 Skill Threat: 8714.355
Devastate: Amount: 18368 Hits: 55 Crits: 5 Dmg Threat: 27460.16 Skill Threat: 9059.7
Shield Bash: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Cleave: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Thunder Clap: Amount: 183 Hits: 1 Crits: Dmg Threat: 273.585 Skill Threat: 478.77375
Reflect: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Vengeance: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Thunderfury: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Deep Wound: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0

Lifebloom: Amount: 21354 Overheal: 60% Threat: 8541.6
Earthshield: Amount: 10813 Overheal: 1% Threat: 10704.87
Prayer of Mending: Amount: 44279 Overheal: 12% Threat: 38965.52

Total amount of dmg threat: 157658.215
Total amount of skill threat: 69975.34375
Total amount of healing threat: 33376.795

TPS: 1011.6680377907

You will see I have a few less Dev's because I use that slot to Commanding Shout. Sometimes Demo/TC if I see I'm way high on threat.

Coolyo · 04/11/08, 3:39 PM

UPDATE:
- Coolyo[dot]org is up and running again!
- If anyone can contribute with a nice banner for my design, you are welcome

eldwar · 04/13/08, 6:42 PM

So, i'm probably doing something wrong, but when i try to uppload this . I only get cURL error number: cURL error: ... Any helps / hints / tricks or secret treasures hidden beneath ?

Coolyo · 04/14/08, 4:38 AM

use the wws log url for the maintank, remember, it only works for warriors.

Zain · 04/15/08, 5:41 AM

Zuldaer - WWS

Teron Gorefiend last week where coolyo site showed me at TPS: 1318.2568379237 sustained. I recieved 1 MD, Had Lust, Battle Shout, and Resto Sham's WF tot. Since then I've gotten another 1.5% hit and 11 more expertise due to badge gear being better than T6. I'll post the new one once we do another BT tomorrow. (and if i get lucky and finally get my damn expertise trinket before the raid tomorrow, i'll break the guessed cap of 10.6% parry, (i'll hit 11% exactly) and i'll keep track of that as well)

( Coolyo[dot]org )

Mokkori · 04/15/08, 6:47 AM

Originally Posted by bobtheorc

What are people's thoughts of rotating shaman to bloodlust the main tank party?

Old quote, but I noticed no one had replied to it.

On threat-sensitive fights such as Bloodboil and Reliquary of Souls, Heroism/Bloodlust for the tanks is great. On encounters where tank threat is high, Heroism/Bloodlust would be wasted on the tanks. Completely situational.

Couple the Heroism/Bloodlust with Windfury/Grace of Air, Strength of Earth, Healing Stream (because it is self-threat when it hits the tank; small but it's something), Flametongue [assuming you have Grace of Air up], Earth Shield (self-threat) on the tank, and Gift of the Naaru (self-threat) on the tank, you have one amazing amount of threat generation.

I'm sure I'll get slammed for this (no pun intended!), but assuming a boss doesn't crush and the content is on complete farm, a Warrior can replace his shield with a one-hander and spam Devastate/Heroic Strike to create absolutely silly amounts of threat. Without a shield the Warrior will take an average of 10% more damage and will be unable to Block Damage, Block, Shield Bash, Spell Reflect, and Shield Slam, but sometimes his threat values can double as a result. It shouldn't be an issue that T6+ tanks need to worry about, but if you plan on experimenting with this, ensure you are crit immune without your shield on.

Dual-wield tanking is a quick and dirty method of getting around rage generation issues (and tank/DPS gear scaling issues) when tanking low-end content with high-end gear.

And be wary. Don't parry yourself to death.

Zain · 04/15/08, 7:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mokkori

Old quote, but I noticed no one had replied to it.

On threat-sensitive fights such as Bloodboil and Reliquary of Souls, Heroism/Bloodlust for the tanks is great. On encounters where tank threat is high, Heroism/Bloodlust would be wasted on the tanks. Completely situational.

Couple the Heroism/Bloodlust with Windfury/Grace of Air, Strength of Earth, Healing Stream (because it is self-threat when it hits the tank; small but it's something), Flametongue [assuming you have Grace of Air up], Earth Shield (self-threat) on the tank, and Gift of the Naaru (self-threat) on the tank, you have one amazing amount of threat generation.

I'm sure I'll get slammed for this (no pun intended!), but assuming a boss doesn't crush and the content is on complete farm, a Warrior can replace his shield with a one-hander and spam Devastate/Heroic Strike to create absolutely silly amounts of threat. Without a shield the Warrior will take an average of 10% more damage and will be unable to Block Damage, Block, Shield Bash, Spell Reflect, and Shield Slam, but sometimes his threat values can double as a result. It shouldn't be an issue that T6+ tanks need to worry about, but if you plan on experimenting with this, ensure you are crit immune without your shield on.

Dual-wield tanking is a quick and dirty method of getting around rage generation issues (and tank/DPS gear scaling issues) when tanking low-end content with high-end gear.

And be wary. Don't parry yourself to death.

Another answer to this would be to use alternative sets of gear. I for example have about 2-3 different tank sets depending on the boss in question. (The main 3 sets being mass avoidance, mass hit/expertise, and a mix of the two) and use those accordingly. The main downside of tanking content below you, is lower rage flow, and thus lowered TPS. Learning when to hold back on using Heroic Strike can easily net you more TPS. It's all about management of that precious red bar of anger. =)