[Warrior] Sustained TPS / WWSed - Page 8

Mokkori · 04/15/08, 7:17 AM

Rage management is definitely one of the more refined skills of a Warrior. Whether you need rage to Shield Block, Intervene, or Shield Bash, far too many Warriors insist that they should use all of their rage the moment they gain it. Contrary to popular belief, a half-full rage bar is just as threatening as an empty bar. --And much safer.

zaon · 04/15/08, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by f1reburn

I have a suspicion that our main tank's threat isn't as good as it could be, considering his gear. I find myself struggling with my threat most of the fights, such as delaying activating my cooldowns until 30-60 seconds into a fight, and having to use Invisability before every Heroism.

Last night's Teron
Calculated threat

Typical MH/BT run

Now I don't know much about protection warriors, from the protection warrior threat I read that the normal latency rotation is Shield slam -> Revenge -> Devastate -> Devastate -> repeat. I think he does use this rotation as I count about twice as many Devastates as Shieldslams, but he seems to be using Heroic Strike a lot less than other warriors in this thread, and Swing more often than average.

Is this basically an issue of not using Heroic Strike enough? From listening on vent he spams his keyboard buttons like no other, so I didn't expect this outcome.

I am not sure if they have fixed/changed this since 2.3 but prior to 2.3 you could mash your heroic strike key and it would make sure HS was up all the time. They changed the behaviour so that if you mash your HS key it actually deactivate/reactivates HS. Depending on your tank's latency and weapon speed he may actually be deactivating HS by mashing the button too much. I know right after 2.3 I had to slow the HS mashing to about 1.5ish seconds to push the % of actual HS up. I have not raid tanked much since then so I am not sure if they reverted this (annoying) behaviour.

ioguolo · 04/15/08, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Zain

Zuldaer - WWS

Teron Gorefiend last week where coolyo site showed me at TPS: 1318.2568379237 sustained. I recieved 1 MD, Had Lust, Battle Shout, and Resto Sham's WF tot. Since then I've gotten another 1.5% hit and 11 more expertise due to badge gear being better than T6. I'll post the new one once we do another BT tomorrow. (and if i get lucky and finally get my damn expertise trinket before the raid tomorrow, i'll break the guessed cap of 10.6% parry, (i'll hit 11% exactly) and i'll keep track of that as well)

( Coolyo[dot]org )

Hey those are some nice numbers, there is a gear difference between me and you but I noticed your HS's are what majorily seperate you and me. Plus you crit more. I also noticed you used a few rage pots? Right now with my gear I chug armor pots. Can you list some rough numbers of your current setup?

% crit, BV, tank group setup? Thanks!

Zain · 04/15/08, 4:32 PM

Originally Posted by ioguolo

Hey those are some nice numbers, there is a gear difference between me and you but I noticed your HS's are what majorily seperate you and me. Plus you crit more. I also noticed you used a few rage pots? Right now with my gear I chug armor pots. Can you list some rough numbers of your current setup?

% crit, BV, tank group setup? Thanks!

Sure! The %crit i sit at (before kings) is 12.05%, the BV i'm at is 341 (autoblocker was on) and I have 4-piece T6 for +10% SS Dmg, the tank group setup I had was Me, 2nd prot warrior using battle shout, a resto sham, a prot pally using devo aura, and a warlock. I got 1 lust, which i called out for right after i had 5 devastates land.

Also, I'm a huge fan of Great Rage Potions, because of how cheap they are, and when you sit at 0 rage for 3 swings, it's not helpin yur #'s! I've also always have made it a big deal about staying way above our DPS, because my guild's always had some of the highest DPS'ers on the horde side. I believe when the fight ended the closest person to me was the rogue Kurg at about 75% of my threat. All and all, it was a good pull. =P

Edit: Like i said in my original post, i've gotten a ton more expertise and hit since the badge gear, and hopefully i'll land my shard before the raid so that i'll hit the expertise cap. We'll see how it all turns out, but hopefully my #'s will go a little higher!

Great Rage Pot Mats for those of you tanks who have yet to embrace the awesomeness ( Great Rage Potion - Items - World of Warcraft )

ioguolo · 04/15/08, 4:51 PM

Interesting, that BV is low even with the AB on, at that point I'm surprised you even had the AB equipped. Thanks for the reply! I'm not blessed with another warrior. We run a prot pally, 2 druids and myself. The dps group gets the fury warrior who cannot raid sometimes so I end up TC/Demo/Commanding during my Dev slot in my rotation.

Zain · 04/15/08, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by ioguolo

Interesting, that BV is low even with the AB on, at that point I'm surprised you even had the AB equipped. Thanks for the reply! I'm not blessed with another warrior. We run a prot pally, 2 druids and myself. The dps group gets the fury warrior who cannot raid sometimes so I end up TC/Demo/Commanding during my Dev slot in my rotation.

Yea, on fights like teron (since we have 2 prot warriors) i usually am blessed with a Tclap and Demo bot, since Prot Warrior DPS is pretty low. =P

Edit: Did another Teron last night, sadly it was lower than last week, due to a TERRIBLE chain of avoids during my bloodlust, so i lost a ton of threat right when i was supposed to be getting a burst. Still pulled 1216, but it was much lower than I had hoped.

Zuldaer - WWS

Yeria · 04/17/08, 9:53 AM

It is surely possible to get some very nice numbers with good expertise/hit gear and a stacked group.

I wanted to see how much is possible on our last BT clear, so I put myself in a group with a DPS Warrior, Enhancement Shaman and Feral Druid (we also had a Survival Hunter in the Raid), while using 8,75% hit and 9,25% expertise, a Mighty Rage and a Haste Potion.

There were 2 or 3 occasions where I had to wait 0,5 seconds or so due to not having rage, so if that does not happen (already nerfed my avoidance a lot), and with possibly capped hit and expertise (lacking Shard of Contempt at the moment), I'll give it another go and try to break 1600.

WWS Link:
Yeria - WWS

1569,98 TPS according to Coolyo[dot]org

zork · 04/21/08, 10:40 AM

My first Gorefiend report:
Rothar - WWS

Got 28 Expertise and 119 hit rating on the kill. (Gorefiend gun instead of the throwing dagger)
I had to do Demoralising Shout and Thunderclap (damn fury :/) so we could use Curse of Recklessness.

My group consisted of 2 ferals, 1 holy-paladin and 1 hunter.

I think its Ok since I got nearly no support and buffed myself with Commanding Shout.

dahakon · 04/22/08, 9:11 AM

Battle time in seconds: 279

Heroic Strike: Amount: 68584 Hits: 132 Crits: 22 Dmg Threat: 102533.08 Skill Threat: 50650.6
Shield slam: Amount: 5382 Hits: 8 Crits: Dmg Threat: 8046.09 Skill Threat: 3671.72
Swing: Amount: 16011 Hits: 52 Crits: 7 Dmg Threat: 23936.445 Skill Threat: 0
Revenge: Amount: 3735 Hits: 10 Crits: Dmg Threat: 5583.825 Skill Threat: 3004.95
Devastate: Amount: 37013 Hits: 108 Crits: 9 Dmg Threat: 55334.435 Skill Threat: 17666.415
Shield Bash: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Cleave: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Thunder Clap: Amount: 189 Hits: 1 Crits: Dmg Threat: 282.555 Skill Threat: 494.47125
Reflect: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Vengeance: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Thunderfury: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
Deep Wound: Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0

Lifebloom: Amount: 28563 Overheal: 62% Threat: 10853.94
Earthshield: Amount: Overheal: % Threat: 0
Prayer of Mending: Amount: 27351 Overheal: 12% Threat: 24068.88

Total amount of dmg threat: 195716.43
Total amount of skill threat: 75488.15625
Total amount of healing threat: 22888.38

TPS: 1054.0966532258

Had bloodlust, windfury and drums of battle. I guess I could do better.

WWS (while still up, not gonna be long)
Dahakon - WWS

ioguolo · 04/22/08, 10:01 AM

Dahakon no earth shield? That's about another 14k threat give or take the length of the fight. Not to mention the actual heal from the shield.

Darmon · 04/23/08, 4:29 AM

Battle time in seconds: 254

Heroic Strike:
Amount: 63133 Hits: 82 Crits: 11 Dmg threat: 94383.835 Skill threat: 30587.7
Shield Slam:
Amount: 31695 Hits: 26 Crits: 3 Dmg threat: 47384.025 Skill threat: 13309.985
Devastate:
Amount: 21387 Hits: 48 Crits: 6 Dmg threat: 31973.565 Skill threat: 8153.73
Revenge:
Amount: 11179 Hits: 25 Crits: 3 Dmg threat: 16712.605 Skill threat: 8413.86
Swing:
Amount: 14529 Hits: 26 Crits: 3 Dmg threat: 21720.855 Skill threat: 0
Shield Bash:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Cleave:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Vengeance:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Thunderfury:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Deep Wound:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Thunder Clap:
Amount: 1614 Hits: 9 Crits: Dmg threat: 2412.93 Skill threat: 4222.6275

Earth Shield:
Amount: 31422 Overheal: 1% Threat: 23253.06555
Prayer of Mending:
Amount: 21574 Overheal: 33% Threat: 10804.79855
Lifebloom:
Amount: 17545 Overheal: 73% Threat: 3541.019625

Total amount of dmg threat: 214587.815
Total amount of skill threat: 64687.9025

TPS: 1247.5378

wws link
Darmon - WWS

I did feel rage starved at him in TPS gear, so the most important way to improve it seems to allow a few crushes to slip by, which would give more rage.

• Xaviera · 04/24/08, 2:29 AM

I figure I'll post this since it's kind of a milestone and was fun.

Battle time in seconds: 152

Heroic Strike:
Amount: 77038 Hits: 85 Crits: 29 Dmg threat: 115171.81 Skill threat: 37494.6
Shield Slam:
Amount: 23677 Hits: 15 Crits: 8 Dmg threat: 35397.115 Skill threat: 10556.195
Devastate:
Amount: 21792 Hits: 29 Crits: 11 Dmg threat: 32579.04 Skill threat: 6039.8
Revenge:
Amount: 13082 Hits: 13 Crits: 10 Dmg threat: 19557.59 Skill threat: 6911.385
Swing:
Amount: 11740 Hits: 21 Crits: 5 Dmg threat: 17551.3 Skill threat: 0
Shield Bash:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Cleave:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Vengeance:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Thunderfury:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Deep Wound:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Thunder Clap:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0

Earth Shield:
Amount: 12841 Overheal: 4% Threat: 9214.7016
Prayer of Mending:
Amount: 31988 Overheal: 18% Threat: 19607.0446
Lifebloom:
Amount: 1831 Overheal: 100% Threat: 1.6996182239382E-13

Total amount of dmg threat: 220256.855
Total amount of skill threat: 61001.98
Total amount of healing threat: 28821.7462

TPS: 2040.0038236842

Coolyo[dot]org

Xavastrasz - WWS

I had a 1650 log from Monday using my threat set but found I was horribly rage starved because my dodge was way too high. I kept the same threat stats (max hit/expertise) but then swapped out gear and reduced my avoidance massively. Had a nice group - only 1 heroism, the rest are the trinket procs, but seeing the end result was a little surprising

Darmon · 04/24/08, 5:37 AM

You seems to have prioritised HS spam over everything else. 25% crit, constant drums of battle, heroism, wf procs from HS, all seems to boost eachother exponentially. Also hardcapped on expertise, including parry removal, and OT doing TC/demo shout duty.

Will try and tailor up my TPS set to see if it's a visibile improvement.

Healranktwo · 04/27/08, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Xaviera

I figure I'll post this since it's kind of a milestone and was fun.

Battle time in seconds: 152

Heroic Strike:
Amount: 77038 Hits: 85 Crits: 29 Dmg threat: 115171.81 Skill threat: 37494.6
Shield Slam:
Amount: 23677 Hits: 15 Crits: 8 Dmg threat: 35397.115 Skill threat: 10556.195
Devastate:
Amount: 21792 Hits: 29 Crits: 11 Dmg threat: 32579.04 Skill threat: 6039.8
Revenge:
Amount: 13082 Hits: 13 Crits: 10 Dmg threat: 19557.59 Skill threat: 6911.385
Swing:
Amount: 11740 Hits: 21 Crits: 5 Dmg threat: 17551.3 Skill threat: 0
Shield Bash:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Cleave:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Vengeance:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Thunderfury:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Deep Wound:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Thunder Clap:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0

Earth Shield:
Amount: 12841 Overheal: 4% Threat: 9214.7016
Prayer of Mending:
Amount: 31988 Overheal: 18% Threat: 19607.0446
Lifebloom:
Amount: 1831 Overheal: 100% Threat: 1.6996182239382E-13

Total amount of dmg threat: 220256.855
Total amount of skill threat: 61001.98
Total amount of healing threat: 28821.7462

TPS: 2040.0038236842

Coolyo[dot]org

Xavastrasz - WWS

I had a 1650 log from Monday using my threat set but found I was horribly rage starved because my dodge was way too high. I kept the same threat stats (max hit/expertise) but then swapped out gear and reduced my avoidance massively. Had a nice group - only 1 heroism, the rest are the trinket procs, but seeing the end result was a little surprising

Mind posting the gear setup you used to do this? Very impressive.

Canadianpimp · 04/27/08, 9:57 PM

From Xav @ General Gorefiend Threat Parse - Page 10 - TankSpot on his gear setup.

Originally Posted by Xaviera

The only way I can drop my dodge rate is to put on gear without dodge or agility. I used 3 piece vengeful, rest was tank gear. I used [Blade of Savagery] from mother shahraz

I could have done a very similar log threat-wise by not using DPS gear, but instead wearing very "bad" tank gear with almost no avoidance. However, PvP gear was on hand because, well, I PvP.

To put it in perspective, my ideal "threat suit" still lands me at something like 60% avoidance in a raid setting, without actually trying to cater to avoidance at all. The only way to maximize your threat is to have stable rage gain, and vs a boss like gorefiend, high avoidance prevents that. I could have taken off gear altogether to reduce my avoidance, but then I'd be dropping massive amounts of armor and stamina. Thus the ideal solution is to put on PvP gear which has high stamina AND armor, but also happens to come with crit/str - not necessary, but certainly a gain.

I assure you if I could have stable rage gain in my normal threat suit with the high avoidance, I'd be able to pull quite near that TPS amount, minus the contribution from the extra ~5% crit. (The rest of the crit is just raid buffs/grp buffs)

Draskyl · 04/27/08, 10:57 PM

This is a Teron Gorefiend kill from this week:

Battle time in seconds: 164

Heroic Strike:
Amount: 47044 Hits: 73 Crits: 12 Dmg threat: 70330.78 Skill threat: 27956.5
Shield Slam:
Amount: 19414 Hits: 24 Crits: Dmg threat: 29023.93 Skill threat: 11015.16
Devastate:
Amount: 19047 Hits: 43 Crits: 5 Dmg threat: 28475.265 Skill threat: 7247.76
Revenge:
Amount: 10159 Hits: 19 Crits: 4 Dmg threat: 15187.705 Skill threat: 6911.385
Swing:
Amount: 16789 Hits: 41 Crits: 5 Dmg threat: 25099.555 Skill threat: 0
Shield Bash:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Cleave:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Vengeance:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Thunderfury:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Deep Wound:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0
Thunder Clap:
Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg threat: 0 Skill threat: 0

Earth Shield:
Amount: 18268 Overheal: 1% Threat: 13518.7767
Prayer of Mending:
Amount: 21505 Overheal: 0% Threat: 16074.9875
Lifebloom:
Amount: 5341 Overheal: 50% Threat: 1996.19875

Total amount of dmg threat: 168117.235
Total amount of skill threat: 53130.805
Total amount of healing threat: 31589.96295

TPS: 1541.695139939

I wasn't using any PVP gear, my crit rates were substantially lower than that of the 2040 of Xav's attempt, I run with about 40 hit rating in the gear I tanked him in but near capped expertise. Had one heroism and a resto shaman as well, nothing amazing in terms of group setup, heres the WWS: Drazkyl - WWS

Coolyo · 04/28/08, 6:45 AM

UPDATE:
- Top 20 overall added.
- Now you can link to TPS logs made on my site.

• Xaviera · 04/28/08, 4:56 PM

Oh, that's awesome Coolyo

Mildly dissapointing to see the Hyjal bosses ranked there though with the massive haste buff from mind controlling necromancers listed though. Can do beyond crazy things with that buff...

Coolyo · 04/28/08, 5:53 PM

When i feel for it, i will do so it's sorted by bosses... but i started logging today

zork · 04/29/08, 6:33 AM

Originally Posted by Xaviera

Oh, that's awesome Coolyo

Mildly dissapointing to see the Hyjal bosses ranked there though with the massive haste buff from mind controlling necromancers listed though. Can do beyond crazy things with that buff...

Says the tank that buffed himself with PvP items and group stacking. Nevermind.

Healranktwo · 04/29/08, 8:54 AM

Originally Posted by Coolyo

When i feel for it, i will do so it's sorted by bosses... but i started logging today

nice yo, looking forward to it.

Happee · 04/30/08, 5:22 PM

Originally Posted by Mokkori

Rage management is definitely one of the more refined skills of a Warrior. Whether you need rage to Shield Block, Intervene, or Shield Bash, far too many Warriors insist that they should use all of their rage the moment they gain it. Contrary to popular belief, a half-full rage bar is just as threatening as an empty bar. --And much safer.