[Rogue] DPS Spreadsheet - Page 11

rhea · 07/20/07, 11:48 AM

Yeah, only just got working excel.

Oh well, Latro's does look cool but I don't feel special /cry.

magicp · 07/20/07, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by rhea

Quick question.

Anyone know the dps difference 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6? when considering procs and haste etc.

I'm currently thinking Latro's VS. King's Defender, it's a 17 dps difference, can 1.4 - 1.6 mean that much? relatively it is 19% (dps) and 13% (speed) so +17 hit rating ftw?

Would like to see a quick-table for this info :p

The only reason to use King's Defender over Latro's is to have a purple offhand instead of a blue.

Hagis · 07/20/07, 4:26 PM

I make my changes and then excel will not let me save it how do I fix this?

Milano · 07/20/07, 7:59 PM

This spreadsheet turned even more awesome after I tried it in Excel

Just noticed this Export/Import function. It shouldn't be that hard to read the armory data from a spesific character with a web based tool and import into the spreadsheet? Would be fucking awesome if someone had the time to implement this. Always interesting to compare your own toon to other rogues, but adding every bit of data takes time.

Ellos · 07/20/07, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by Milano

This spreadsheet turned even more awesome after I tried it in Excel

Just noticed this Export/Import function. It shouldn't be that hard to read the armory data from a spesific character with a web based tool and import into the spreadsheet? Would be fucking awesome if someone had the time to implement this. Always interesting to compare your own toon to other rogues, but adding every bit of data takes time.

The problem is, when the armory isn't in english, then it is needed a translation table and this would be to big.

And another problem is, I don't know if you can read the gems.

Milano · 07/20/07, 8:24 PM

The tools at MMO-Champion.com Armory Guild Tools can read the sheet datas for each character atleast. Should be possible to read talents and the slots for the items atleast?

Kaubel · 07/20/07, 9:14 PM

"At least" = two words.

Wandatin · 07/20/07, 9:40 PM

Does the Upgrade macro not work with Excel 97? The macro halts at:

Listname = Replace(ItemCell.Validation.Formula1, "=", "")

It has done this since version 2.3.6

Kinesia · 07/20/07, 11:59 PM

Hi, while the new dropdown lists breaking weapons up by type are really good, there are a few issues...
Mainly that certain combinations (especially turning PVP off, cause I never PVP) leave you with no weapons available at all.
Mainly I don't think you have enough 5-man weapons listed.
For example, I am Combat Maces. We are most of the way through Kara and have killed Maulgar in Gruuls. Since I don't pvp the _only_ Mace offhand I have access to is the Blackout Truncheon, but this isn't in the list.
I've put it back in myself, but I don't know the proc information. I was going to download an older spreadsheet to look at that, but you don't have any versions to download that are before the change...
So... Yeah, please consider putting slightly more of the "5 man" items back in please...
Thanks.

sp00n · 07/21/07, 7:30 AM

Originally Posted by Ellos

The problem is, when the armory isn't in english, then it is needed a translation table and this would be to big.

And another problem is, I don't know if you can read the gems.

For the European Armory, you can just select English display, not matter what server you're playing on.

See my profile, German server, English profile.

Kolmoga · 07/21/07, 1:16 PM

Is the hit cap on the spreadsheet modeled correctly? I have 306 hit rating and Latro's along with Precision and Weapon Expertise, so my hit cap should be 303. Switching 2 of my Rigid Dawnstones (+8 hit) to Bright Living Rubies (+16 AP) raises my buffed and unbuffed DPS on the spreadsheet, even though my miss chance goes up (hit rating lowered to 290 and no damage socket bonus was affected). I was under the impression that until you are at the hit cap, hit rating would provide the most DPS increase, but the spreadsheet does not seem to support this. Tested this also with removing 3 Rigid Dawnstones which left me at 282 hit rating. Now adding Bright Living Rubies seemed to increase DPS by about 3 per gem, whereas Rigid Dawnstone would increase DPS by only about 2.45 per gem (again, no damage socket bonus). So, are AP gems a bigger DPS increase than hit gems, even if you are not at the hit cap?

I'm using the 2.2.0.5 version of the spreadsheet.

wranor · 07/21/07, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kolmoga

Is the hit cap on the spreadsheet modeled correctly? I have 306 hit rating and Latro's along with Precision and Weapon Expertise, so my hit cap should be 303. Switching 2 of my Rigid Dawnstones (+8 hit) to Bright Living Rubies (+16 AP) raises my buffed and unbuffed DPS on the spreadsheet, even though my miss chance goes up (hit rating lowered to 290 and no damage socket bonus was affected). I was under the impression that until you are at the hit cap, hit rating would provide the most DPS increase, but the spreadsheet does not seem to support this. Tested this also with removing 3 Rigid Dawnstones which left me at 282 hit rating. Now adding Bright Living Rubies seemed to increase DPS by about 3 per gem, whereas Rigid Dawnstone would increase DPS by only about 2.45 per gem (again, no damage socket bonus). So, are AP gems a bigger DPS increase than hit gems, even if you are not at the hit cap?

I'm using the 2.2.0.5 version of the spreadsheet.

I believe that it depends where you are at with your AP. Hit is excellent, but balance is important and your AP may be low enough that a +16 bump makes more of a difference then a few extra hit rating points. I suppose if your hit is high enough that you only miss a handful of times on a raid, the static boost from AP over that time may be more than enough.

Spreadsheet aside, it's a good idea to try and keep some balance...at least in my opinion.

sp00n · 07/21/07, 7:22 PM

Just let the AEP calculate for your equipment.
For combat, AP normally is at 0.5x and hit is at 1.1x.
If 2x AP > 1x hit, then the 16 AP gem is higher than the 8 hit.
Although not by a large margin, it is mostly the case (for me, 16 AP shows a larger gain than the 8 hit, but I still use the hit ones, because missing so much just makes me sad

).

Latito · 07/21/07, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by Kolmoga

Is the hit cap on the spreadsheet modeled correctly? I have 306 hit rating and Latro's along with Precision and Weapon Expertise, so my hit cap should be 303. Switching 2 of my Rigid Dawnstones (+8 hit) to Bright Living Rubies (+16 AP) raises my buffed and unbuffed DPS on the spreadsheet, even though my miss chance goes up (hit rating lowered to 290 and no damage socket bonus was affected). I was under the impression that until you are at the hit cap, hit rating would provide the most DPS increase, but the spreadsheet does not seem to support this. Tested this also with removing 3 Rigid Dawnstones which left me at 282 hit rating. Now adding Bright Living Rubies seemed to increase DPS by about 3 per gem, whereas Rigid Dawnstone would increase DPS by only about 2.45 per gem (again, no damage socket bonus). So, are AP gems a bigger DPS increase than hit gems, even if you are not at the hit cap?

I'm using the 2.2.0.5 version of the spreadsheet.

Suppose you had 290 hit and 100 AP. Yes, 100.. not 1k, not 1500. Would that last 18 hit really help you much? No.. those extra few hits would still be wimpy. Adding more dmg to the ~94% of your attacks you already are landing would be much better.

Now suppose you had 0 hit and 2k AP. Adding hit would SUBSTANTIALY improve your dps as each extra attack that now landed would be huge. Adding AP would be a relatively small percentage dmg increase.

Think of the extremes and you'll realize there is no "X is ALWAYS better than Y". In general, hit is king, but you can overdo it, just like anything else.

Kolmoga · 07/21/07, 9:54 PM

Ok, thanks for the comments, I think I have overestimated the importance of hit, at least if the spreadsheet DPS calculations are to be trusted. Just tried changing all my 12 gems on the spreadsheet to 16AP ones, most being 8hit gems currently, here are the results:

Before:
306 hit
1507 AP
671.05 unbuffed DPS

After:
238 hit
1657 AP
678.02 unbuffed DPS (+6.97)

So seems to be a big boost gained from scrapping the hit gems. These results make me wonder, has anyone experienced with their gear setup in the spreadsheet that 8hit would provide more DPS gained than 16AP? Because it would seem from the above that the rule of thumb would be AP > hit, at least when gemming and going for maximum DPS. Doesn't this conradict the (common?) consensus that hit>AP for combat rogues? Or is there some hidden DPS gained by the +hit through combat potency and poison procs that the spreadsheet is not taking into account?